positive charges drawn towards clouds?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by foolios, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. foolios

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Feb 4, 2009
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    In the book I'm reading the author states that there is an equal amount of positive charge in the ground that matches the negative charge in the clouds above. That the positive charges are drawn to the clouds and that they will rise above the power lines.

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    What are positive charges? I thought it was the electrons from negatively charged particles that were going to do the moving. What is happening with positive charge movement? I understood it as electrons are what moves. What is this business about positive charge movement?

    THanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2010
  2. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    The absence of electrons create holes where the electrons would normally be. These holes can be thought of as positive charge carriers.

    Electrons in general are pretty fluid, then can be moved around pretty easily.
     
  3. foolios

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    Feb 4, 2009
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    How is it that the holes(positive charge) move from inside the ground up to higher ground, trees, telephone poles, etc.? Since electrons are what moves, how are the holes(positive charge) moving towards the electrons? That's what this author seems to be saying. Is this possible?
     
  4. Wendy

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    It's more like the electrons leave the neighborhood, leaving holes behind. Remember similar polarities repel, opposites attact.

    As an electronic concept holes are considered particles. They aren't, but as a model it works.

    It is applied a lot with semiconductor theory.
     
  5. beenthere

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  6. studiot

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    Not a bad description, but

    All molecules are neutral.
     
  7. VoodooMojo

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    Nov 28, 2009
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    "all the mumbo jumbo, how has the mystical ways of earth and sky been lessened by we, those never satisfyed by myth or legend, wondered, when Sally slid across the seat of the 53 Buick one winter's evening and planted that 40,000 volt kiss, why our lips felt like the battle of Jupiter and Thor was taking place right then and there?
    How have we been cheated by knowing now what causes a rainbow? I want that pot of gold.
    and the kite and the key thing, yeah, that was a leep of faith!
    lets go through all this pain so we can draw a diode backwards!"

    the preceeding has been a paraphrase from my early electronics instructor in the mid 60's. mr houde, where ever you are, thank you for letting me know it is ok to question and explore.
    I always thought it was her braces.
     
  8. jpanhalt

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    Jan 18, 2008
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    I have highlighted a few of your statements, but not all, that need checking. Please read up on lightning before positing such nonsense.

    Ground to cloud is less frequent than cloud to ground lightning (see: Wikipedia). What is the hydrogen concentration in air at ground level? Etc.

    John
     
  9. beenthere

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    But this is a site dedicated to "electrical mumbo-jumbo".
     
  10. jpanhalt

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    Impressive credentials. What is NOA?

    Can you provide a lead to some of your publications on the role of hydrogen in lightning and thunder?

    John
     
  11. Wendy

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    Last time I heard this nonsense is was from the over unity crowd, at the same time the claim the earth was sentient and water was its memory. Silly me, I thought lightning was about plasma and ionization. Wait, IT IS!

    It has nothing to do with hydrogen or oxygen, most of the ionization is nitrogen, which makes up 70% of our atmosphere.

    While lightning has some aspects that are not understood, for the most part we have a lot of info. Static generation is also pretty understood too.

    Try science, it is much better than fantasy. I read both, but I know the difference.
     
  12. studiot

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    As an organic chemist you surely know that all molecules, without exception, are neutral.

    That any molecule that has had an electron or electrons 'shaved off' or added is no longer a molecule but something else, possibly an ion.

    That many molecules, whilst electrically neutral overall, are polar or polarized so present faces to the outside world that are slightly positive or negative.
    Nevertheless, for every slightly positive face on a molecule there is another slightly negative face somewhere else on the same molecule.

    I do not wish to denigrate your other claims but merely ask for some hard facts figures, to compare against other known ones.

    For instance what would the increased hydrogen concentration amount to?
    The average concentration of this gas is so low ( 0.6 parts per million) that a hundredfold
    local concentration increase has no practical significance.

    http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113518676/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
     
  13. VoodooMojo

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    Nov 28, 2009
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    NOA is the guy that built the boat because it was getting real deep with all the lightening and rain and stuff
     
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