plumbing ? again

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mathematics!, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    1,022
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    For water supply lines they use
    copper pipe
    galvinazed steel pipe
    cpvc
    flex

    Is their any other types ever used?

    For water waste lines they use
    pvc

    Is they any other pipe types ever used?

    For gas lines they use
    caste iron
    Is their any others type used or is that it ?

    Also don't really know if they still use lead pipe for anything they probably used it for supply lines before they found lead to be harmful but don't know if it is useful any more for plumbing ...etc?

    Thanks
     
  2. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    15,815
    282
    Gas is in black iron and soft copper. Cast iron pipe is almost exclusively for waste.

    I'm not sure you will find galvanized used for water supply.

    Your local library probably has several titles on do-it-yourself plumbing, and perhaps some more serious stuff as well. That is a good resource to use.
     
  3. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    1,022
    4
    I am just wondering all the types of pipe used for different stuff
    I stand corrected about the iron.
     
  4. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    You can use flex line for gas. Pex for water supply, cast iron for waste or grey water. But PVC for waste it the cost effective way to go.
    CPVC for water supply is the cost effective way also..
     
  5. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    I have seen wood (San Clemente, CA), lead, and clay used within my lifetime for potable water pipes. Glass (usually Pyrex), teflon, other plastics, and stainless steel or other metals are used in labs. In fact plastics other than cpvc are used in domestic supplies too.

    @beenthere
    As I recall, use of copper for natural gas is regulated by local code.

    John
     
  6. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    My propane all runs (to code) in soft copper (outside) and black iron inside. Domestic natural gas off a main may be differently connected. The gas meters look to have black iron running to and from.
     
  7. someonesdad

    Senior Member

    Jul 7, 2009
    1,585
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    ABS is much more common for DWV (drain waste vent) applications than PVC, at least where I live. PVC is common for sprinkler lines (as is black poly pipe), but if any of you use PVC outside, make sure you paint it or cover it, as it can "rot" over time due to exposure to UV radiation in sunlight.

    All the houses I've live in since the 1950's (west and northwest US) have all used galvanized steel pipe for water distribution. Steel, of course, is harder to work with than a glued or crimped plastic pipe (if allowed by your local codes), but once installed, is reliable. Depending on the water supply, it can get crudded up over the years, reducing the usable ID.

    You'll occasionally see brass pipe used in houses (at least I have). In one house I lived it, the builder didn't use a dielectric fitting for the steel pipe coming into the house and he used a short piece of brass pipe. This corroded over the years and eventually caused a leak. I found it by wondering what that funny noise was when the air conditioner was running. When I looked into the crawl space, the whole thing was filled with water. :p
     
  8. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    1,022
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    OK, my main question now is what is the purpose of putting water softeners in your water supply lines ? Does this some how change the pressure .... if so how ...because it is not changing the pipe size or anything....

    Is water softener ok to drink when it is in the water lines?


    Thanks
     
  9. Bychon

    Member

    Mar 12, 2010
    469
    41
    My water softner does not put softeners in the water. It captures the calcium ions (and probably a few others) and replaces them with sodium ions. Sodium ions interefere less with soaps and detergents. You also wind up drinking the sodium ions. I did the math once because some alarmist warned me about ingesting sodium (as in table salt). The answer was something like, "If I drink 23 quarts of water in one day, I will have ingested half the recommended maximum dose of sodium". I never drink more than 6 quarts a day and I don't have high blood pressure problems, so I feel safe enough.
     
  10. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    1) You need to look up what defines hard water. As you read that, you may want to recall some of the discussion on reversible and irreversible chemical reactions.

    2) Water can be "softened" by adding materials that counter act the effects (like Calgon) or by removing the Ca and Mg ions. Never drink water that has had Calgon added.

    3) Calcium and magnesium can be removed by a variety of methods. The most common in home method is by ion exchange using a cation exchange resin that is loaded with sodium. That is why such softeners regenerate periodically and one has to add salt (NaCl) to them. In ion exchange, the divalent cations are replaced by sodium. Please read a little about ion exchange.

    4) Is ion exchange water safe to drink? Clearly, one would be concerned about the cleanliness of the process -- did you use clean salt or reclaimed road salt in your softener? Ever clean out a softener after 10-years of use? Generally speaking, though, cleanliness of the process is a minor issue.

    5) The biggest issue is whether the increased sodium intake is bad for you. You may have read about efforts in NYC to prevent chefs from adding salt to food. Some hard water is so hard, that the softened product does have a very slight salty taste. Most hard water is not that way, though. So the real question is whether continuous intake of very low levels of sodium in our water is bad for you. It takes large scale and long term studies to show that. I have not researched it in many years, but I am aware of a few studies that seemed to show increased cardiovascular risk in communities with hard water -- assuming those communities might have wide spread use and intake of softened water (i.e., increased sodium intake).

    6) Finally, most areas only put the water softener on the hot water side of the domestic supply, which is where it is needed. That is done to reduce the amount of softening required (i.e., cost of salt) and maybe the potential health risks. It may be required by code now everywhere -- I've not checked.

    I recommend that you keep your system in compliance and use common sense. Drinking a little hot water is not going to kill you instantly, nor will cooking with hot water do that. But in general, I would drink cold water or cold water that has been heated. Use hot water for non-drinking purposes.

    John
     
  11. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    A split supply system is a popular way to go. Your waters hardness, the issues you have with the hard water, and budget are the determining factors of what to do. Hard water leaves spots on dishes and cars. It reacts with soap and detergents, decreasing their effectiveness. It also results in scale in water pipes and hot water heaters, reducing efficiency significantly.

    So you can run a soft water line to your hot water heater and to a faucet by your driveway. And the clothes washers. If you have a dishwasher, you should run it there too. Everything else, hard will do.

    Drink hard water. Cook with hard water. Flush toilets with hard water. Shower with hard water, unless you have a skin problem that is further irritated with hard water.

    The kitchen faucet used for cooking water and drinking water should not be soft, but should be filtered. If you are installing new pipes, I would add a whole house filter at the main in for the house. If pressure is a problem, a booster pump may be in order.

    For older systems, an at tap, or under sink filter will do. If you have a pretty faucet that "pulls the room together" you can install the filter under the counter with a quick cut above the cut-off valve.
     
  12. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    Here are some references. The first group is from vendors of water treatment devices. Since it costs less to have a split supply (hot softened, cold not), why not? If you want a more complex system, fine. Filtration is another issue. Perhaps that discussion should be left for later.

    http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water_health/health1/1-hard-soft-water-cardio-disease.htm

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2143/whats-the-difference-between-hard-water-and-soft-water

    http://www.mgwater.com/exhibitb.shtml

    Probably less biased and at least reviewed:

    http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...820&jid=PNS&volumeId=31&issueId=03&aid=655812

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

    John
     
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