Cheap enough to build, let us know if it works.

 

Just out of curiosity, I threw together a simulation of the circuit in the video.

With a few tweaks, it does oscillate. 1.2k is about the limit for R1; afterwards there is not enough current to start the tank oscillating.

See the attached.

 

Ok in regards to this photo... assuming I had a capacitor with value of 11uF (the water tank cell)

That's one HUGE cell!
How did you calculate or measure the capacitance of the cell?

If you post the details of your cell's construction, particularly the dimension(s) of the plates/tubes, the spacing between them, and how they are interconnected, the approximate capacitance range can be calculated. The more accurate you report the dimensions, the more accurate the response will be.

and an inductance, of oh say, 1H (to keep it simple) that would put my initial resonating frequency somewhere around 14khz.

No, that would put your initial resonating frequency somewhere around 48Hz.
F = 1 / ( 2pi * sqrt(LC) )

The question: If I were to say use 12V input, what type of FET should be utilized? I don't know what kind of voltage to expect at the gate... thanks

Why don't you first try the circuit I modeled?

You'll have to wind your own transformer, whichever circuit you try.

The voltage across the cell won't be high enough to produce any remarkable results.

 

A parallel resonant circuit has some pretty high current flowing through it, but this assumes no losses, the electricity is "recycled" between the coil and the cap. The moment you start tapping into this energy you have to make up the losses.

1 Farad and 1 Henry is huge, physically huge. There is a reason most coils and caps are in the micro and milli range.

Wook, I LIKE that circuit. Wish you were around during my teen days, and building these oscillators using empty toiliet rolls for coils. This was the era my Dad's favorite command to me was "Turn it off" because he wanted to watch TV.

 

AWESOME

To answer your question Sgt., the plates are 26 guage 304 stainless steel, exactly 12" x 6". They are separated by the width of 1 regular rubber band.

Construction:
One plate has a rubber band around the center
The other plate has two rubber bands, one on each end
The plates are squeezed together by 2 more rubber bands

Plain tap water is being used

I measured the 11uF with a capacitance meter... it accurately measured a couple of electrolytic caps I had laying around too

How could I can combine this circuit with a step up transformer(s) to get the high voltage I expect will be needed?

What size wire/diameter/number/core of turns would I need to get 2uH and 127uH?

If I ever figure this out I won't soon forget about your help

 

The plates are 26 gauge 304 stainless steel, exactly 12" x 6". They are separated by the width[thickness] of 1 regular rubber band.

Construction:
One plate has a rubber band around the center
The other plate has two rubber bands, one on each end
The plates are squeezed together by 2 more rubber bands

Plain tap water is being used

OK. There's already WAY too many variables in play here.

I'm afraid there is no such thing as a "regular rubber band". They come in many sizes, widths and thicknesses, and as they are stretched, they become thinner and more narrow. Some are made of natural rubber, many are made of synthetics. Some are more conductive than others. ANY conductivity by your "regular rubber bands" will throw capacitance readings way off. Since your plates are not held in any kind of framework, there is not much of a way to ensure that the distance between the plates is consistent.

The water needs to be pure distilled water. Any contaminants will terrifically skew your capacitance readings.

I measured the 11uF with a capacitance meter... it accurately measured a couple of electrolytic caps I had laying around too.

Your cap meter might be OK. However, I think your cell measurement results are skewed by contaminants/construction materials.

Try drying your plates completely, and re-measuring their capacitance when they are separated by a thin sheet of fiberglass, or perhaps an evenly-placed layer of typing (printer) paper. I will need to know the thickness and material you used.

How could I can combine this circuit with a step up transformer(s) to get the high voltage I expect will be needed?

Patience, you're not even close yet. Let's figure out what your cell capacitance actually is.

What size wire/diameter/number/core of turns would I need to get 2uH and 127uH?

Take another look at the simulation. Note the value of the capacitor in the "cell". You've just told me that your cap measures 11uF, which I am certain is far higher than it's actual value. The "cap" in my simulation is 115nF, or roughly 1% of your measured 11uF. This means that the values I used in my simulation are not of much value for your particular situation.

To err is human; to really foul things up requires a computer.

 

Just a thought, you could put a really large capacitance in series with the network. The resonance would be set by the plates, but if their not a capacitance (but a conductor) then you would still have the currents created by the other capacitance in the LC circuit.

Doesn't the water have to be conductive for electrolysis?

 

Haha

Sgt., there's a couple things you should know about.

A) The inside of the negative plate had developed a thick, rubber like skin (oxide layer) due to 3 weeks of on/off conditioning at low power.

B) I accidentally blew my capacitance meter (I just got this sweet scopemeter the UNI-T81B but it's a Hong Kong piece of crap) so I was unable to measure the capacitance of an identical pair of plates WITHOUT the oxide layer...

I assume the reason the value seems high to you is because of this layer... is this layer dielectric?

As for perfect measurements, there's no way I can tell you exactly the distance between the plates because I dont' have a caliper. I would guess about 2 mm. The rubber bands I'm sure are fairly non-conductive...

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Bill,

The theory of this method is to use regular water, preferably distilled, to avoid amp consumption. The increased impedance at resonance allows high voltage to build around the water molecule. The H20 molecule, being weakly electrically bonded, begins to bend and then simply falls apart. Not much power is consumed by the circuit -- in the perfect embodiment, no current flows between electrodes.

The spacing between the plates is important though -- the high voltage effects are similar to a magnets strength, in that the electrical field is exponentially weaker the farther away it has to travel. Extremely close plates can probably dissociate water with much lower voltage.

This is all theoretical and supposed, but I have seen enough evidence and know enough about physics/chemistry to be convinced it's possible.

 

12" x 6" plates held apart by a sheet of paper (perhaps 1.6 mils, or .0016") would have a capacitance of about 10nF. Were that paper completely soaked with distilled water, capacitance would be about 789nF, or 0.789uF.

Your reading of 11uF is so far off it isn't funny.

Haha

I said it's not funny.

Sgt., there's a couple things you should know about.

A) The inside of the negative plate had developed a thick, rubber like skin (oxide layer) due to 3 weeks of on/off conditioning at low power.

B) I accidentally blew my capacitance meter (I just got this sweet scopemeter the UNI-T81B but it's a Hong Kong piece of crap) so I was unable to measure the capacitance of an identical pair of plates WITHOUT the oxide layer...

I assume the reason the value seems high to you is because of this layer... is this layer dielectric?[/QUOTE]
Water (pure water) has one of the highest dielectric constants known.

You don't have to take my word for it - please do some research on the subject. If you find some other chemical that has a higher dielectric constant than water, I'd like to know about it.

As for perfect measurements, there's no way I can tell you exactly the distance between the plates because I dont' have a caliper. I would guess about 2 mm. The rubber bands I'm sure are fairly non-conductive...

OK, even if the plates were separated only by a sheet of distilled-water-soaked typewriter (printer) paper, the most they should measure is still comfortably under 1uH, even if you factor in a 20% margin of error.

I'm counting on a single sheet of distilled-water-soaked typewriter paper being about 1.5 mils thick. It will probably be thicker. If it is, there is NO way that your cell could have a capacitance of 11uH.

No way.

Find out what's causing the problem.

 

I haven't followed this thread religiously, so I may have missed this: Has the water-dielectric cap been tested with an ohmmeter? I suspect it doesn't need much contamination to be conductive enough to screw up the readings of a simple capacitance meter.

 

I haven't followed this thread religiously, so I may have missed this: Has the water-dielectric cap been tested with an ohmmeter? I suspect it doesn't need much contamination to be conductive enough to screw up the readings of a simple capacitance meter.

That's what I'm thinking, Ron_H.

There is no way his "cell" could be 11uH.

 

That's what I'm thinking, Ron_H.

There is no way his "cell" could be 11uH.

Or 11uF.

 

Or 11uF.

Darn, we may have to take one the Sarge's strips away.

 

The H20 molecule, being weakly electrically bonded, begins to bend and then simply falls apart. Not much power is consumed by the circuit -- in the perfect embodiment, no current flows between electrodes.

This is one of our core disagreements though, it is NOT a weak bond. If it were life on this planet wouldn't be possible. What water is is an excellent solvent, it will disolve almost anything without be actually corrosive. It is a polar molicule, which means it has a plus and a minus side, which helps ionic bonds like salt (sodium cloride) desolve. The same reason a hydrogen oxygen flame has so much energy is the same reason it is hard to break the hydrogen atom loose again, it is a very tight bond, and oxygen is very reactive.

I follow these thread in the off chance something new will happen. If I know something that can help I volunteer it.

Pure water isn't conductive in the slightest, and as far as I know electrolysis requires the water to be conductive. Could be wrong about that, but it is my understanding. I used to work on high power LASER systems that powered a xenon tube with 300VDC, all washed in pure water (refered to as deionized) to keep it cool.

 

This is one of our core disagreements though, it is NOT a weak bond. If it were life on this planet wouldn't be possible. What water is is an excellent solvent, it will disolve almost anything without be actually corrosive. It is a polar molicule, which means it has a plus and a minus side, which helps ionic bonds like salt (sodium cloride) desolve. The same reason a hydrogen oxygen flame has so much energy is the same reason it is hard to break the hydrogen atom loose again, it is a very tight bond, and oxygen is very reactive.

I follow these thread in the off chance something new will happen. If I know something that can help I volunteer it.

Pure water isn't conductive in the slightest, and as far as I know electrolysis requires the water to be conductive. Could be wrong about that, but it is my understanding. I used to work on high power LASER systems that powered a xenon tube with 300VDC, all washed in pure water (refered to as deionized) to keep it cool.

You are correct about pure deionized water being non-conductive. I worked with a 15,000HP variable speed motor driven compressor system that used DI water cooling for it's 144 SCRs in it's rectifier and invertor sections. We had to constantly monitor and periodically change out DI filters and water filters to maintain resistivity to 1meg/cm or higher as the water was in direct contact with the SCR heatsinks at 7,500volts and ground via the external fan driven heat exchanger.

Pure water is an excellent insulator, but it's hard work keeping it excellent.

 

My theory is that because the h20 molecule is polarized, it should respond and orient to an electrical field. If the electrical field becomes strong enough, the molecule will have to split. So simple...

Yet there are other effects, like how the individual molecules interact with each other under this condition. Also, stainless steel has a lot of nickel, which is electromagnetic -- when you pulse stainless steel with electricity, you activate the magnet which vibrates at the frequency it's being pulsed with. This causes rapid pressure changes in the water, known as cavitation, (which is probably why Meyers used long ss tubes) that get the water molecule bouncing if you will. The bouncing is an oscillatory bending of the hydrogen oxygen bond. As it flexes, it becomes easier to dissociate.

I wish someone with more knowledge and resources with electricity would just try this out. I can answer almost any question regarding the theory of this guy -- I've read all the patents n^x times, and done a but ton of other research, including mind experiments.

The other fact is, I interviewed personally the reporters who first investigated the stan meyers story, and they told me they watched him fill up his dune buggy with water and drive away. Another fact -- the man died at an early age just days before signing a major production contract.

Good luck

 

I did a little Googling, and I found that it is the nickel in stainless steel that makes it nonmagnetic. From Physlink.com:

[SIZE=-1]It is the nickel which modifies the physical structure of the steel and makes it non-magnetic. [/SIZE]

Other sites say the same thing. It is true that nickel is magnetic, so maybe you are talking about a different phenomenon.

 

Ok I'm finding the same thing, but why is it then that a material composed primarily of iron and nickel (both magnetic) would not electromagnetize?

Perhaps the cavitation or acoustic vibrations of the electrodes are caused by something else, like the high voltage pulse itself?

Perhaps there are no acoustic vibrations, though I have heard reports and witnessed a loud ringing sound from some people's cells.

Wahoo

 

Ok I'm finding the same thing, but why is it then that a material composed primarily of iron and nickel (both magnetic) would not electromagnetize?

Perhaps the cavitation or acoustic vibrations of the electrodes are caused by something else, like the high voltage pulse itself?

Perhaps there are no acoustic vibrations, though I have heard reports and witnessed a loud ringing sound from some people's cells.

Wahoo

The plates of a capacitor will vibrate due to electrostatic attraction as the voltage across them changes.
http://dept.physics.upenn.edu/~uglabs/lab_manual/electric_forces.pdf
Also search for "capacitor plate force" and other relevant terms.