PIR 12v Motion Sensor wiring?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by clone477, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. clone477

    Thread Starter Member

    Oct 3, 2008
    11
    0
    Hello Everyone,
    Thanks ahead of time for any help.

    I am looking to install two 12v motion sensors(3 wire) into the top and bottom step of my stairs. These will trigger strip LED's at each step.

    I am trying to wire this motion sensor,http://http://easylink.hafele.com/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/HNZ-EasyLink_HNZ-Site/HNZ-EasyLink_HNZ/en_NZ/pdfcatalog/NZ01AMBIENT/blaetterkatalog/html/sensor_switch_features.html


    I purchased a power supply,
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003WOIVRU/ref=oh_details_o08_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    The way I wired it, positive and negative from transformer to red and black terminals on pir motion sensor, black from transformer to black on LED strip lighting, and lastly yellow wire from pir motion sensor to red wire on LED strip lights?

    The lights just stay on very dim. What am I doing wrong? Will this setup not work? Is there another suggestion for a small motion sensor for my setup. Thanks for the help guys.
    Fern
     
  2. mik3

    Senior Member

    Feb 4, 2008
    4,846
    63
    You have to consider the current capability of the sensor and how much current the LEDs draw.
     
  3. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
    12,093
    3,032
    Do you have more information on that sensor? I couldn't see much at the link. It likely cannot handle as much power as you are trying to switch. (Might be easy to fix, if that's true.) But it's hard to tell without more info.
     
  4. clone477

    Thread Starter Member

    Oct 3, 2008
    11
    0
    Thanks for the help guys, I really want to get this working.

    Okay, all the current and voltage values seem to be fine. The LED strip lighting is a total of 25watts at 12v. The transformer is rated for 60watts at 12 volts, and the motion sensor, https://hachol02.hafeleonline.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?item=136611&sitex=10020:22372:US

    is rated for 30watts max at 12v. So that seems fine I think.

    Here is a link to the spec for it , http://www.hafele.com/us/external/mountinginstructions/LOOX_SWITCHES_833.89.04X.pdf

    It is also a 3 wire sensor which I am not exactly sure how to wire, I supplied power and found to the red and the black, assuming the yellow wire out of the sensor would send power to my LED lights when it is tripped.


    What am I doing wrong? Any other suggestions?
    Thank you guys
    Fern
     
  5. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,509
    2,369
    I don't see the nature of the output, is it open collector, NPN or PNP?
    Max.
     
  6. shteii01

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2010
    3,383
    495
    I think I figured out your problem with motion sensor.

    Your problem is that Hafele products are integrated to work together. Here is what you should have done: Buy LED strip from Hafele, buy motion sensor from Hafele, buy power supply from Hafele.

    Hafele makes a power supply, this power supply has a special port where you plug in your Hafele sensor. It has another set of ports (looks like 1-6) where you plug led strip.

    From the installation pdf for the motion sensor that you provided, you have following choices of power supplies:

    Voltage supply, 12 volts
    833.74.900
    833.74.901

    Current supply, 350 mA
    833.80.900
    833.80.901



    It is my opinion that the reason Hafele does not list any meaningful technical data is because they want you just to buy all the parts from them and plug them together because they are designed to work together and are integrated (they have corresponding plugs and sockets already in place) to work together. You, on the other hand, got three different parts from three different places and now have trouble making them work together.
     
  7. sheldons

    Active Member

    Oct 26, 2011
    616
    101
    if its open collector heres a circuit you could try with a 555 timer with required op stage to drive your leds
     
  8. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,509
    2,369
    Also need to know if NPN or PNP output, also could be Open Coll.
    Could try both possibilities with an inverter?
    Max.
     
  9. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
    5,776
    1,103
    Do you mean the lights are on continuously, regardless of the PIR being triggered or not?

    For testing the set-up can you reduce the load (<<25W) by using just one LED strip?
     
  10. clone477

    Thread Starter Member

    Oct 3, 2008
    11
    0
    Thank for the advice guys, and sorry for the very late response. You guys are right, that sensor is designed to work with their box. I didn't know. So I will have to use their box if I want that to work. Are there any other suggestions for a motion sensor, that is small enough to build into the stairs, will trigger a 12v relay, and that will stay on for say 30 seconds? Thanks again
    Fern
     
  11. elec_mech

    Senior Member

    Nov 12, 2008
    1,513
    193
    Unless the PIR is using some special communication protocol, I suspect it will still work for your application. Try this:
    1. Connect power to the PIR.
    2. Leave the yellow (signal wire) unconnected.
    3. Use a volt meter and connect the negative probe to the negative lead.
    4. Connect the positive probe to the yellow lead.
    5. What is the voltage when the PIR is not detecting anything?
    6. What is the voltage when the PIR is triggered?
    7. Now put the positive probe on the positive lead and put the negative probe on the yellow lead.
    8. What is the voltage when the PIR is not detecting anything?
    9. What is the voltage when the PIR is triggered?
    10. Assuming you see a change in one of these conditions when the PIR is triggered, how long does the PIR have a signal on the yellow lead when triggered briefly?
    My guess is the PIR signal lead is not designed to handle much current, so you'll need to connect the output of the PIR to a transistor or relay to control your LED strips. Failing that, we'll help you find a suitable PIR sensor. Most of the ones I've played with can only output a few milliamps and need an amplifier of some sort for powering loads. What country are you located in? This will help us recommend a suitable supplier.

    Assuming the PIR sensor you use, be it this one or another, does not keep the signal output high for 30 seconds, you'll need to add a timer. A 555 will work well. You can also take a look here for an example.
     
  12. clone477

    Thread Starter Member

    Oct 3, 2008
    11
    0
    Okay,
    I applied 12v power to the pir sensor, and attached my neg from my volt meter to the negative terminal and the positive to the yellow terminal from the pir. I have full voltage showing. The reading does not change when I try and trigger the sensor by flashing my hand in front of it. When I hook the meter with the positive connected to positive and the negative connected to the yellow of the pir, there is 1.40 volts, but again it does not change when I try and trigger the PIR.

    This doesn't look good I am guessing? You would assume the voltage reading would change?

    What options do you guys recommend?

    I am located in Ontario Canada.

    Thanks
    Fern
     
  13. elec_mech

    Senior Member

    Nov 12, 2008
    1,513
    193
    Hmm, that is odd. Perhaps they do indeed use some type of communication protocol. As a last ditch effort, you could try contacting the manufacturer and see if they can tell you how the signal wire works.

    Failing that, I can put together a circuit using cheap PIR sensors. Something like this or some of these. Some of the ones in the last link have an adjustable delay timer built-in. The caveat is these are not designed for outdoor use, but if you keep the sensor out of direct sunlight and house it and the circuit in a waterproof enclosure you should be okay. You might also get away with hacking an outdoor light fixture.
     
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