Pid controller for a Glass kiln

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Derrickb, May 4, 2014.

  1. Derrickb

    Thread Starter New Member

    May 4, 2014
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    Hello, my name is Derrick Brock, and I am trying to build a kiln with electronic control. I have the kiln, and I have the controller and i have them wired to the configuration where power is running to the kiln and the controller and functioning somewhat correctly. The thermocouple is acting strange, very sensitive, and reads the wrong temp, (any help on that would be great.) but my main issue is its not shutting off when I need it to. I feel like i just don't have it programmed well, or its completely hooked up wrong. Here is everything I have. I have a kiln, a plug for the kiln, a plug for the controller, a MYPIN TA4 pid temp controller, a solid state relay and some wire to connect it all together. The manual for the mypin is very difficult to follow, and even more, it's very limited in description of how to input processes. Any suggestions right off the bat would be nice, but if you need pictures, diagrams, or any other information feel free to contact me. I really need to get this kiln going so I can start working on glass.
     
  2. Alec_t

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    Sep 17, 2013
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  3. KMoffett

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  4. Derrickb

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    May 4, 2014
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    Thanks, I will get pictures and diagrams and everything.
     
  5. Derrickb

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    May 4, 2014
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    Here is a diagram for this setup I have going on. It may seem a bit confusing but this is what I have right now. Also included some pictures of the connections.
     
  6. Derrickb

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    May 4, 2014
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    Sorry about the orientation of these images. I did not know they were upside down. Also the full model number is smeared. Sorry I can't get that info.
     
  7. KeepItSimpleStupid

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    Mar 4, 2014
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    Start here, with the kiln heater disconnected.

    OK, with the thermocouple inputs shorted with a wire, the readout should read room temp or the lowest temp of the controller.

    Don;t use crimp ons with thermocouples.

    In the thermocouple world, RED goes to the NEGATIVE terminal.

    The thermocouple TYPE MUST match. Type K is probably the most common TC,

    Extend TC's with extension wire or TC wire and connectors of the right type. The colors generally uniquely identify the TC.

    It's possible that the controller has a menu for the TC type,

    The sensor could be something entirely different. Most TC wire is very hard to solder too.
     
  8. Alec_t

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    Isn't it supposed to be sensitive? It would need to be if the controller is settable to within, say, 0.1 degree (I don't know if it is, but I believe the display can be set to that resolution?).
    If the temperature reading is way off it does seem there's a mismatch of thermocouple type, as KISS noted, assuming the connection polarity is correct.
     
  9. mcgyvr

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  10. n1ist

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    Mar 8, 2009
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    What current and voltage are the heating elements in the kiln? A kiln wired with 18AWG wire makes me nervous...
    /mike
     
  11. KMoffett

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    Dec 19, 2007
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    As I said previously, the MYPIN TA4 comes in several different flavors (attached). If you don't know what model you're working with, you may not be able to wire the input and output as you think. If it is a thermocouple input the wire colors will tell you the type and polarity: http://www.omega.com/Temperature/pdf/tc_colorcodes.pdf

    Where did you buy it? Did they indicate that it was a T/C input and SSR output?

    Ken
     
  12. Derrickb

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    May 4, 2014
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    @Alec_t OK the thermocouple is supposed to be sensitive, but it jumps a lot and goes to the UUUU display when jostled slightly. @mcgyvr Also I have watched all YouTube videos I could find on this, they are usually wired up already, and they do teach you how to program but I followed all those instructions, and it's still not shutting off when it is supposed to. I'm asking for help with the description of the different settings, like AL1, Alarm1 mode, puf, P, I, D, Hysteresis, Ctl, trl, trh, bsl, these are all the display settings that I am not sure about, I put the actual letter display that comes up for most of them because I don't know what they mean. Like the best way for me to understand all this is to give me an example setting, so I know what to adjust and what to leave alone. This is what i don't know, does the alarm need to be set? Do I need wires going to and from the alarm to the ssr? Do I even need wires connected to the alarm output on the controller. I need power to go to the ssr correct? If you look at the diagram I only have that coming from an outside source and it's not affecting the way something turns off or not. Should I be using separate power for the controller and to turn the kiln? So my question is i need the kiln to be ON until it hits a certain temp, then I want it to go off once it hits that temp, i would like it to give itself about a fluctuation of about 20 degrees till it turns back on. That's all I got for now hopefully I can get some answers here.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
  13. Alec_t

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    Sep 17, 2013
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    That suggests a bad/loose connection or broken wire.
    Not unless you want an alarm. The alarm is separate from the main output and shouldn't connect to the SSR.
    Your 20 degree fluctuation is presumably obtained using the 'Hysteresis' setting.
    From my limited scan of the literature IIRC the Alarm has 8 possible modes (e.g. over temp, under temp ...).
    I would guess trl and trh refer respectively to the low and high trip points, but whether for the Alarm or main output who knows?
     
  14. Derrickb

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    May 4, 2014
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    OK questions.
    -do I need power going to the ssr?
    -how does the ssr connect to the heating source?
    -how does the heating source get power? That's the main things im having issues with now. I've negated the alarm for now, because I still don't know the purpose of the alarm.
     
  15. KMoffett

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    Dec 19, 2007
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    The basic wiring. You might want to add a fuse and a power switch.
    This assumes that your controller is set up for a T/C and SSR
     
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