PIC16f505 and uJDM programmer

Discussion in 'Embedded Systems and Microcontrollers' started by glenn_boy13, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. glenn_boy13

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 19, 2012
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    Hi guys! I have an easy question:
    is this so called uJDM programmer can be used for PIC16f505?
    http://www.semis.demon.co.uk/uJDM/uJDMmain.htm

    according to this site: http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-JDM-PIC-Programmer/

    The project has been tested with the following IC's :
    PIC16f84A
    PIC16f628A

    Oh wait, I tried comparing the pin configuration (using their respective datasheets) of such two 18-pin tested mcu and the cute pic16f505. I've found out that the necessary pins of the two mcus are present in the pic16f505, except the data pin. RB7. :((

    Im not quite sure if I can hook up the DTR of the com port to other data pin of the pic16f505.

    note: I do not have a lot of knowledge in pic. Ive never tried one. I know how to program using arduino only. I am trying my best to gather information about pic, since Im so busy with my school stuffs, I can barely read lots of datasheets and articles.
     
  2. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    First you must check if can find your PIC in the programmer software pull-down menu. If yes then download the datasheet from here(oh yes! you have to read it;)) http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/41226E.pdf
    Then take a look at table 1-1 It will tell you which pins to use during programming. Should be easy to sort it out
     
  3. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    Well I make the time to read lots of datasheets and articles, and I have an easy answer for you here.

    Do take the time to read it.

    Do get a programmer that also works as a debugger.

    Don't make your own programmer unless you have lots of time to waste.
     
  4. glenn_boy13

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 19, 2012
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    ohh sir erniem, forgot to mention, I do not belong to a rich family. ;) Im not from a rich country either. You see, I did mention that Im merely a student. But as soon as I got my job, right after I graduate, I can buy any programmer I want. uhmmm, I can buy your recommended programmers, but it will take time hehehehehe! :p

    I think, making such uJDM programmer is easy. I could buy PIC16f84A or
    PIC16f628A to work with such small and simple programmer,
    but they are 18 pins. As of now, I have a school project which has a "hex to 7segment display decoder". In my country, MC14495 and DM9368 are not available. So my best choice is to use mcu rather than mux and basic gates, but my professor may notice the chip if I use PIC16f84A or PIC16f628A. So I was asking if I could just use uJDM for 505 pic. Anyways, I already finished my project using arduino, but still, I want to make a decoder using the pic505 for my classmates!!! ^_^

    by the way, thanks sir t06afre
     
  5. bertus

    Administrator

    Apr 5, 2008
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    Hello,

    If you want to make your own programmer, have a look at this german site:
    http://www.sprut.de/electronic/pic/brenner/index.htm
    Here is the google translation of the page:
    http://translate.google.com/transla...t.de/electronic/pic/brenner/index.htm&act=url

    There is also a page on how to connect the ISP pins of the pics:
    http://www.sprut.de/electronic/pic/icsp/icsp.htm
    And here is again the google translation:
    http://translate.google.com/transla...sprut.de/electronic/pic/icsp/icsp.htm&act=url

    Bertus
     
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  6. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    If you want to build that programmer for your own education or something to do then fine. If you are doing it to save money then forget it. You are wasting your money.

    Buy a Micrchip pickit 2 or pickit 3. You will save yourself a lot of headaches. If you still want to build a programmer then great but there are better ones out there. Microchip has released the hexcode for the 2 so you could buy a 3 then build a 2 to get some of the advantages of the 2. If your built 2 seems to be working strange, you could always drag out the 3 and check your work.
     
  7. Markd77

    Senior Member

    Sep 7, 2009
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    The different types of PIC have different programming sequences and different commands need to be sent to program them. This means that although the hardware might be capable of programming a lot of different types of PIC, the software has to know how to program the one that you are using. That's one of the problems with DIY programmers, the writer of the software won't usually get the full range of PICs, make changes to to the software for each one and test them. Mostly they will only work with a few popular chips.
     
  8. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    Well I can see your arguments. But if you get problems related to loading the code into the controller. It is not much we can do to help you. A selfmade JDM programmer be can quite moody. If it has a good day it may work if it feel for it. It is well known that the JDM programmer do not like USB to serial dongles. It is quite a simple construction so just go ahead and try it. I hope it will work for you
     
  9. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Unless you can get the individual components for free or very cheap, I think you will find that there is not too much difference in price. Real pickit 2s are pretty cheap now.


    And as t06afre says, there is very little anyone will be able to do to help you.

    This is not an inexpensive hobby. You might want to consider looking for extra work to help you feed your habit. :)
     
  10. glenn_boy13

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 19, 2012
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    hi guys! Thank you for all the replies! I think I should really get the PICkit2...
    There are two kits available in my favorite electronic shop: http://www.e-gizmo.com/KIT/eICD2.htm and http://www.e-gizmo.com/KIT/ePIC-KIT2.htm .. But I really don't know what to choose

    ALSO, IF I get the PICkit2, can I program any 14-PIN PIC chips using such PICkit2? I just want to use any 14-pin chips badly. I've already checked out the PICkit2 device support list: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en027813

    BUT, the page says: "use AC162059 ICD header & AC164110 adapter" if I am going to use pic16f505!!! HUHUHUHU... I really don't know such thing. if I use 676: AC162052 ICD header & AC164110 adapter.

    As a starter/noob in PIC world, I find pic so complicated unlike arduino, I just bought the arduino kit, program the chip, learned burning bootloader, and etc... I've had already 4 or 5 school projects that have an ATmega328 mcu.

    Can anyone here tell me what are those 14-pin chips? I only know two: its the pic16f505 and 676.

    glenn.
    ps: please bear with me, I just want to ask and ask, I have not enough time in reading many articles/tutorials regarding my problem. ^_^

    EDIT and update: Hey guys! I just found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWuTwX5KrKw
    HE USED a 14-pin chip, PIC16f676 and a PICkit2. So no worries now, I think. In the video, the uploader showed a very sharp image of his circuit. Just a PICkit2 and the chip plus a cap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  11. Markd77

    Senior Member

    Sep 7, 2009
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    The second link is a PICKIT2 clone and is the one I would go for out of the two. In theory the clone can work exactly the same as a genuine one. Microchip released the schematics and source code for the PICKIT2 so it's even possible to build your own (but you need a PIC programmer to program the PIC in it).
     
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  12. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
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    You only need a ICD header if you want to do hardware debugging.
    .
    I would also have gone for the PICKIT2 clone. One thing. Every engineer must be able to navigate in unknown water. And also be able to understand information provided. So no sympathy from me regrading not having time reading many articles/tutorials :D:eek: But anyway up to now you are handling new information good
     
  13. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    You don't need that header for programming:
    "* Devices marked with an asterisk require a device specific ICD header board & the RJ-11 to ICSP Adapter to enable debugging. These are not required for programming."

    The reason for that is some very tiny devices don't come with the circuitry for in-circuit debugging, so Microchip makes special devices that do have this circuitry. You use the special device (actually a small PCB assembly) for "development," and then for "production" switch to the smaller simpler cheaper device.

    Don't use those devices with the asterisk! The boards are (relatively) expensive and hard to work with.

    Both the PIC16f505 and PIC16f676 would work with the PICkit2 both for programming and in circuit debugging. Both also have an internal oscillator which I *stongly* recommend you look for in any PIC you choose, even if you don't intend to use it in your final project: it make initial debugging of your project so much easier.

    I don't know why you want to limit yourself to so few pins: To program you need to treat 2 pins special so the programmer can control them, and if you want to do in-circuit debugging (and you probably will) these pins need to be completely free. That means a 14 pin device only has 9 pins available for "useful" stuff.
     
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  14. takao21203

    Distinguished Member

    Apr 28, 2012
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    Why not build your own programmer?

    It is easy, when you can master USB PICs.
    The programming specs for 16F PICs are not that complicated.

    The PICKIT programmers are off the shelf allround programmers.

    If you need 20 of them, but only use a few PIC models, you might be better off building your own.

    The PICKIT for instance will have to reload firmware pieces if you switch between baseline, midrange, and 18F. This will take about 15 seconds.

    If you build your own, you can add storage, and don't have to reload the firmware.

    You can build RS232 as well but it is outdated technology.
     
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  15. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    Umm, and how will this device be programmed without already having a programmer?

    And has Microchip ever released the debug interface that would also have to be mastered to get in-circuit debugging to work?

    BTW, I've built a programmer as part of a test fixture that selects appropriate firmware, modifies it some, loads it then verifies all is there before running the electrical testing. It is *not* a beginner's task.
     
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  16. takao21203

    Distinguished Member

    Apr 28, 2012
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    Not, that is.

    I don't know of the debug interface. It is hardly any useful for me. If I want debugging, I hook up a display to the controller.

    And no it is not for beginners or hobby users.

    But I2C and USB are fairly complicated, if you can use these technologies, you can also design a programmer module.
     
  17. glenn_boy13

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 19, 2012
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    hello guys! Thanks for all your replies!
    thanks sir Mark for suggesting what programmer should I buy in e-Gizmo shop.

    I JUST SUCCESSFULLY BUILT MY VERY FIRST PIC Programmer! ^_^
    Very simple uJDM, I used this pic16F628A and IC-prog to burn the hex file. It is an 18-pin chip. The reason I push myself to use lesser pin chips is that, they are cheaper. And they are just like a regular IC. So if ever my professor wants us to build a particular project, then I could just use a pic microcontroller to make my circuit smaller and easier to build.

    BUT, I have one more question, I got the codes here: http://picprojects.org.uk/projects/decoder7/

    SOMETIMES the chip works! and soemtimes not. Just tell me if I need to make a new topic. :p
    When I plug either regulated or unregulated power supply, at first it works for about 5 seconds, and then the circuit will turn off :(. Note that my supply is stable of course. I tried regulated 3.3volts, 5volts from arduino. and unregulated 3 to 6volts. I could see that the LEDs(or the segments of my 7segment display) blinks and fades sometimes until the circuit totally turns off.

    glenn
     
  18. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    Do you have current limiting resistors on the 7 segment display to keep the current under about 15mA per output?

    The outputs are rated for 25mA, but there is a package limit as well, so if all outputs are putting out maximum current, you end up over the package limit.

    Does the PIC get warm in the few seconds it is working?
     
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  19. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    Glad you got your programmer to work!

    Please post a schematic so we can see how this is all connected. A new thread for a new problem is a good idea.

    edit to add: Is this your schematic?

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. glenn_boy13

    Thread Starter New Member

    Dec 19, 2012
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    hi sir 'thatoneguy' - you are right!!! When I remove the current limiting 100ohm resistor from the common cathode of my 7segment display, the display just blinks. When I put it back, it gives me a beautiful max intensity of the display. thanks!!!

    My only problem is the LETTER c output. hehe. Anyway I can edit the data in the EEPROM.

    thanks sir ErnieM. Yes that is my schematic. hehe. I mean, I use that one. how did you know? hehe. thanks to http://picprojects.org.uk. I am currently studying C programming for PIC, and I hope I can make my own bcd to hex 7 segment display program and simplify the connections of the pic chip.
     
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