PCB Design Software

DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
So is Diptrace wining the election? or is it EAGLE?? , since I am here I have to say I too tryed using EAGLE as at the time it was the more "trendy" choice, but the multi window scared me away within minutes, I could'n do anything, then I was kind of ashamed that a software slaped me in the face like that, so I removed it and never saw each other since.

I still think you should pull your own hair and try, see what works for you, at least you won't lose anything trying.

On another note, a while back I thought of making a PCB router/mill based on the HPGL languague with a ROLAND MODELA driver, and in my quest for a PCB package that could natively export a design and throw it right in to the router, found diptrace, it has an edge export wich do just that, a feature not seen very often.

See attachments and tell me, Is that a cool feature or what....!!!!

I would like to see EAGLE doing something like this!!!!!! heheheh

Good luck.
The multi-window really isn't a problem--don't let it scare you away. After you use it once or twice, it'll be easy to understand. I rather like the multi-window setup.

That's another thing I like about EAGLE: It has a 3-D program that takes the .brd file and does a rendering of it in 3 dimensions. Here's an example of what it can do:



That's a very simple board, but hopefully you get the idea.
 

Thread Starter

rmeghdies

Joined Nov 7, 2011
6
Wow...okay so the battle is between Eagle & Diptrace...

Any major differences between the free versions?

From what I have read, Diptrace is easier to use but Eagle is more commonly used in industry.


Also I heard someone mentioning a library. I take it a library contains components that are already designed for users to throw onto their PCB. Am I right?
 

DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
Wow...okay so the battle is between Eagle & Diptrace...

Any major differences between the free versions?

From what I have read, Diptrace is easier to use but Eagle is more commonly used in industry.


Also I heard someone mentioning a library. I take it a library contains components that are already designed for users to throw onto their PCB. Am I right?
Yup, that sounds about right.

yes, a library contains the models and information for different components and parts. I really shouldn't argue one way or another because I haven't used Diptrace. I can only say that EAGLE is better (in my opinion) than Express (for example).
 

mcgyvr

Joined Oct 15, 2009
5,394
Yup, that sounds about right.

yes, a library contains the models and information for different components and parts. I really shouldn't argue one way or another because I haven't used Diptrace. I can only say that EAGLE is better (in my opinion) than Express (for example).
Yes Eagle IS better than Express hands down..
But Diptrace is still better than Eagle :) (and I've used both..Well I really only used Eagle during the time I was investigating PCB software and as soon as I tried Diptrace..Eagle was immediately uninstalled)
I haven't found anything that Diptrace can't do.. And I do some very non-standard high power PCB's/panelizing,etc...
 

BSomer

Joined Dec 28, 2011
434
The differences between the two (Eagle and DIPTrace) free versions is the limitations. Eagle limits the total size of the board (100mm x 80mm) and I think only two sided disigns are allowed. DIPTrace limits the pin count to 300 or something like that. There may be more limits with DIPTrace though I do not know what they are. Personally I have been using Eagle for a few years and like it. I recently downloaded DIPTrace but have not installed it yet to play around with.

I do not know what the complaints are about the libraries for Eagle. There are a ton of different libraries available at the Eagle website from users around the world. If you cannot find what you need in one of the libraries you could easily make it yourself.

This was just my $.02
 

panic mode

Joined Oct 10, 2011
2,715
quality of what? 3D rendering?
Maybe so but guess what, i'll trade the difference any time for no design restrictions.
I can redesign any part to get smoother surfaces or look like photograph but who give a damn?
Btw. KiCad was doing 3D long before Eagle. ;)
 
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Felo

Joined Feb 20, 2012
91
The multi-window really isn't a problem--don't let it scare you away. After you use it once or twice, it'll be easy to understand. I rather like the multi-window setup.

That's another thing I like about EAGLE: It has a 3-D program that takes the .brd file and does a rendering of it in 3 dimensions. Here's an example of what it can do:



That's a very simple board, but hopefully you get the idea.
You got me there on the 3D stuff, mmmmhmhmh that is a nice feature indeed
 

DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
What's up with the two pins sticking out on the uC?

Have you uses Eagle 3D and Pov-Ray to render this?
Hahaha, I was waiting for someone to ask that (about the leads). I have a capacitor mounted on the underside of the board, directly under the chip. I'm thinking there might be a way to shorten/trim the leads in the software to keep that from happening, but I'm not sure.

Yes, I used EAGLE 3D and PovRay for Windows to do the rendering.
 

elec_mech

Joined Nov 12, 2008
1,500
Okay, so there are pros and cons to each of the programs mentioned here. I notice a couple points missing though. Before I go on, please note I've made one PCB with Eagle, just downloaded KiCAD and Diptrace to look at, and am currently using ExpressPCB to make a PCB. I'm just starting in PCBs and have no desire to etch one, so I'm concerned with the following when selecting a program:

1) Easy to use
2) Ability to send files to multiple PCB vendors to get some price options
3) Something I don't have to spend a ton of money on

Ease of Use - All programs will have a learning curve and I don't think one significantly outweighs another here. Eagle - in the past - took longer than ExpressPCB or DipTrace to get going, but they're always improving on it, so by now it may be a piece of cake. Sparkfun.com has an Eagle tutorial as well. KiCAD "looks" a little intimidating (I just opened it).

Ability to send to multiple PCB Vendors - Eagle, DipTrace, and KiCAD all allow you to do this by making Gerber files used by all PCB vendors. ExpressPCB puts it in its own format limiting your options. Now, I've read you can make your PCB in ExpressPCB and have them make your first batch of boards through them and then they'll give you the Gerber files for your board to take elsewhere (haven't done this myself). Alternately, I've found that Futurelec.com has a board house and will accept ExpressPCB files and they appear to be cheaper than ExpressPCB. I plan to try this myself in the coming weeks, so we'll see how that goes.

Cost - Let's talk free first. KiCAD appears to be full-featured and is free. ExpressPCB is free but has limitations in who you can buy your boards from. DipTrace offers a free version under the following conditions:
A. You cannot use the program to profit from, e.g., if you're making many a board and plan to sell them then you can't use the program; they do mention that making a few bucks for a hobby application isn't out of the question though.
B. Limited to 300 pins, 2-layer. You can get 500 pins by contacting them and telling them you're a hobbyist and won't be using the program commercially (to make money).

Eagle offers a 30-day trial (I think), but you're least expensive options after that are $170 for 6-layer and up to a 3.9" x 6.3" board size for hobby use only or $70 for 2-layer and up to 3.1" x 3.9" board for commercial use. Both include schematic capture, PCB design, and auto-router. Prices start at $315 for just one of those three packages for larger board sizes and more layers. Once you buy an Eagle package, you get free lifetime updates.

DipTrace offers $75 for 2-layer, 300 pins or $145 for 2-layer, 500 pins. This includes schematic capture and PCB design. I'm unsure about auto-routing. Both of these are for commercial use. Updates are not included.

I keep finding I need boards a little bigger than 3.9" x 6.3" and spending over $200 for a PCB program is a bit much, so Eagle is out for me.

This is just my two cents and observations, so if you have something to add or correct, please do. I've read discussions on this subject a few times here looking for the ideal program myself, but price of the program or limitations such as board size, commercial use, etc. rarely seem to get mentioned so I thought I'd put everything I've learned to date here in hopes it helps others out.
 

DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
1) Easy to use
2) Ability to send files to multiple PCB vendors to get some price options
3) Something I don't have to spend a ton of money on
Express fails the last two, if you ask me :p

As I mentioned before, I haven't used KiCad before. Perhaps I should download it and give it a try, so I know what I'm talking about! :D
 

ErnieM

Joined Apr 24, 2011
8,377
With a previous employer I had full use of the Orcad design suite, meaning a Cadence schematic capture (that would play with a spice program) and the PCB editor (I forget it's providence but it is also known under several names). We also had tech support, meaning I could email or even call and get "expert" support.

After a recent job change I was tasked to design more PCB without a budget for software. I chose Kicad as it is free, has no legal limitations, and does a very good job. I have yet to try it's auto router as the items I have produced so far have very few connections, but are so tight (one board is literally .22" x .085" holding 5 components) that a hand layout was the only choice anyway.

I am quite pleased with the package. I am still learning some of the basics but it can make boards I can go anywhere to get produced (*except* ExpressPCB).

I still like the ExpressPCB service and would use them for low quantity quick turn boards. That is their forte and I have yet to see them beat when getting boards in their wheelhouse.
 

elec_mech

Joined Nov 12, 2008
1,500
Express fails the last two, if you ask me :p
The program itself is free, so it passes #3. You can send it to somewhere other than ExpressPCB itself, so it passes #2 in the strictest sense. Not as versitile as the others certainly.

I chose Kicad as it is free, has no legal limitations, and does a very good job.
I like the free part and I'm attempting to use it, but gosh darn, I can't get it to work well. I can open the PCB program and place a part. I cannot seem to make traces from one pin to another to save my life. I've skimmed the manual and it says select the trace option, click on the first pin then double-click on the second. I do this and the trace disappears and the pins go dark. I'm trying to make sure I'm in the front copper plane when I place the pins and trace, but that doesn't seem to help. I even tried placing a via and it does nothing. Is there some trick to placing traces in KiCad?

To boot, half the time I select a tool and move into the drawing window, I can't get out. I keep right clicking and closed the tool, but it still wouldn't let my cursor leave the window. I couldn't even use Windows icon + D to minimize the program, it completely locks you into the drawing window and moving the mouse outside of it just drags the drawing view over. Ugh, I finally had to go into Task Manager and force the program to shut down just so I could leave the drawing window and use my computer again. I am not liking KiCad at all right now. The UI is very confusing. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what.

ExpressPCB is the simplest and DipTrace seems fairly easy too. I can at least start placing parts and making traces in both of those.
 
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DerStrom8

Joined Feb 20, 2011
2,390
The program itself is free, so it passes #3. You can send it to somewhere other than ExpressPCB itself, so it passes #2 in the strictest sense. Not as versitile as the others certainly.
Last I knew, Express was limited only to the Express company. You could not send the designs anywhere else. That is why I said it fails #2. I said it fails #3 because Express charges quite a bit to manufacture your boards.
 

nowire

Joined Apr 11, 2012
3
Try freepcb

No free-version limitations. Design schematic in TinyCad, and import to FreePCB. Also, comes with an autorouter.

However, free comes with a price:
- inability to put graphics into design silkscreen
- software crashes once in a while, so back up frequently
- limited to horizontal/vertical parts - no 45 degree rotation

Still, there's a lot of usability for free.
 
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