networking terminology ?

Discussion in 'Computing and Networks' started by Mathematics!, Dec 14, 2011.

  1. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ok I am getting confused with some network stuff.

    We have
    hostname = computer name /server name
    assuming domain name = hostname (correct me if I am wrong)
    dns = domain name server and is used to resolve ip to hostname or visa-versa.

    Here is where my confusion sets in.
    netbios name is this the same as the hostname or can it be different?
    wins = windows internet naming server (what is the difference between this and dns why even have wins )
    (netbios and wins is microsoft specific)

    so I am assuming (correct me if I am wrong) host , hostname , server name , computer name are just different words for the same thing.
    But where does netbios names go are they different then the above terms if so can you give an example where the netbios name is not the same as the computer name/host name?
     
  2. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    Sadly, no, they aren't the same thing. I feel a rant coming on.....

    DNS, IP Address, server name.domainname.[com|org|net|tv|xxx] Default Gateway, Netmask, DHCP -> TCP/IP Parameters

    Worgroup, Domain, NetBios, Samba, WINS -> Microsoft Networking

    Microsoft tried to make their own network system for homes and offices prior to the Internet being widespread. There was NO TCP/IP stack in Windows 3.11, only Windows NetBios/Samba (GNU Implementation is called Samba, after SMB). So, lots of offices ended up using NetBios to share disks and printers, as the only other choice was an expensive Novell setup.

    WINS Server -> Same as DNS, but for NetBios Names and Microsoft "Neighborhood" or "Directory" domains.

    Then The Internet arrived, in Windows 95, Microsoft wouldn't let go and implemented "NetBios over TCP/IP" for transition and to keep people buying their server operating systems.

    Now, Local networks have names and a Microsoft Domain, possibly a Novell Domain, as well as an Internet Domain. Signing on to a computer in an office networked environment is usually through Microsoft Active Directory or Novel Directory (which is basically what Microsoft copied since XP).

    Networking is just the opening of the rabbit whole. There are hundreds to thousands of instances where Microsoft (or Apple) tried to make their own proprietary standards out of things that already had a perfectly workable public specification defined in RFCs (Requests For Comments). The number of RFCs had to go up quickly to basically un-screw what all the fiddling Microsoft with NetBios and Apple with Appletalk (which never migrated to work over TCP/IP) screwed up.
     
  3. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ok, is their an example or case when the netbios name is different from the computer name / hostname.

    Basically I always looked up the hostname or server name as being the computer name.
    And the netbios name was the samething.

    Is netbios actively being worked on or is it going to die out and we are just going to have the
    regular tcp/ip network as a universal way of doing everything.

    Logically, it doesn't make since to have netbios when you already can do every thing over tcp/ip now. Like wins would be the same as dns if the netbios names where the same as the hostnames correct?

    netbios, smb /cifs , and samba are all protocols that are hard for me to fully understand since their is really no good specification out their that explains them.
     
  4. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    I guess now that I think about it.
    On a dns server you can have multiple names that resolve to the same ip address.

    So you can have multiple domain names for the same computer.
    So I guess the better question is
    What is the proper or standard way of obtaining the below info such that you will not get the names mixed up
    computer name =?
    server name =?
    hostname = ?
    netbios name = ?

    Question 2
    Curious is their away to get all the domain names that resolve to the same ip. (i.e all the alias domain names for a certain ip)
     
  5. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    Where computer names are different in NetBios and TCP/IP is on Windows Servers, if one is a webserver, it is known as www.bizdomain.com, but on the inside, it's probably OurWebServer.Microsoftdomain

    Though for anybody to sign on to OurWebServer.MicrosoftDomain, they need to log in to the Microsoft Active Directory Service with a pre-established account, which gives them permission to access a set of resources on OurWebServer.MicrosoftDomain, or none, depending on what their role is. Accounting usually doesn't change the webserver, but the graphics guys would.

    Computers in both TCP/IP and Microsoft Active Directory can be aliased to appear as more than one machine. This is necessary with cloud computing and clusters. In addition to connection limits, each different server name can have different properties, such as open ports and services running, even though it's on the same hardware as another named computer.

    And yes, Microsoft allows single computers to be in multiple Active Directory Domains. I'll put the login first, to simulate a tech support guy: mike.mikesmachine.techsupport mike.mikesmachine.admin mike.mikesmachine.accounting (so he can remote access those machines to work on), etc. etc. etc.

    Active Directory Services are a headache, and when the permissions get messed up, you gotta walk back the cat to find where they failed. Worst of all, it's a pointy-clicky environment which makes it error prone over command line administration. Though they did finally come out with command line admin tools with nearly all the features of the GUI.

    For getting all the names, you can do an nbtstat -A <IP> to list names and resources, but that isn't fully reliable. Not even looking at the entry in Active Directory tells you the full story unless you look in a couple places.
     
  6. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Correct me if I am wrong but if linux machines are on a microsoft network.
    They cann't use active directory to authenticate because active directory is just a microsoft only specification/protocol .

    So I would assume the only equivalent thing linux/unix based machines would have is LDAP. You could use openldap to get the equivalent of microsofts active directories.
    Correct me if I am wrong.

    If that is all true then can LDAP and active directory work together so you can have both microsoft and linux based authentication on the same network?

    Also would I be correct and saying netbios / wins... can only be understood from the intra-net and not the internet.
    Because to get to the machine from outside the LAN (i.e the WAN) you need to use domain names /dns servers/ip address more universal stuff.
    At least thats how I always done it. And netbios /wins would be used if you are inside the network and wanted to get to another group/ internal domain , or work group machine inside one of the inside groups
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  7. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    Yes, you can sign onto a samba server (linux), Novell Directory Service, or Microsoft Active Directory, sometimes more than one.

    It depends on the resources you want to access and what machines those resources are on. It gets to be quite the headache.
     
  8. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ok , good to know that you can if you must.
    This applies to windows , and unix/linux based machines.

    Curious if we threw mac / apple systems into the mix.
    Do they support samba , LDAP , active directory or do they have another thing that they use?

     
  9. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    No place I've helped used apple other than one. It required special setup of a Layer 3 switch to simply let AppleTalk broadcast.

    One of the Mac people here can probably answer that, though. I'd imagine they have SMB support, since OS X is a *nix variant.
     
  10. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ya , mac is mostly BSD based so samba should work.
    But curious if a mac guy is out their and knows more and would share when he gets the chance.
     
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