Negative ion generator

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Anton D, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. Anton D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 18, 2015
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    Hi all.
    I am currently constructing an electrostatic flock apllicator. The instructions I am using show the negative ion generator as having one red high voltage output lead. However, the generator i have purchased has 2 Hv output leads. They are both white. Any one go any idea which lead I should use?
    Anton
     
  2. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    Got a data sheet or instruction manual for the generator you bought? Make or model number? Do these two white leads have any markings at all? Without more data it's sort of impossible to answer your question.

    Ron
     
  3. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    No, it is rather easy to answer his question. He must ultimately use a white one.
    Now, if he wants any details of HOW to wire it up, he will have to give us some details.
     
  4. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    Actually, my first thought was simply to say "Use the white wire". :)
    Yeah, it's like I have a box with two white wires coming out of it. Which white wire should I use?

    Ron
     
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  5. locross

    New Member

    Jan 18, 2015
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    Thank you for your answer!
     
  6. Anton D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 18, 2015
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    Ok guys, as you can tell i am new to this game
    this is a diagram of what i am trying to do

    33.jpg

    This is the generator they are using
    IONB2.jpg
    This is the generator i have
    untitled.png

    I hope this explains more clearly

    Anton
     
  7. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    Anton, I will venture a guess here and this is just that, a guess. If you have or have access to an ohmmeter measure across the two white wires. My guess is you will get close to zero ohms or no resistance. My guess is the two white wires are common to each other, effectively one in the same. So if I am guessing right the red wire is the 12 volt +, the black wire is the 12 volt - and both white wires are the HV for your screen. The black is your common for your 12 volt negative and the alligator clip going to the workpiece.

    Here is what I base my guess on. Units like this output DC. The units powered from 12 Volts DC have a common and +12 volts, usually black and red respectively. The common black also serves as the (-) Negative for the high voltage lead. Pretty much as shown for the Oatley unit. The HV output is normally a thicker wire with HV insulation. So if I had to guess, which I am doing, I would guess the two white wires are one in the same. Why it was built with two I haven't a clue. I can't make out the name on the unit you have. So with what we have, that's my best guess and I am sticking to it. :)

    Ron
     
  8. BillB3857

    Senior Member

    Feb 28, 2009
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    I'll post my guess. The Oatley unit shown has a single high voltage wire for DC HV output using internal rectifier/voltage multiplier with the HV common tied to the 12V negative. The second unit, which we can't read details of, may have two wire AC output that is isolated from the DC input. Again, ohm readings comparing all leads to each other will tell a lot.
     
  9. Anton D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 18, 2015
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    Thanks Ron that was my best guess to but i thought it would be a good idea to check with the experts. Would have been best to buy the Oatley unit but this one was far less expensive!
     
  10. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    When you get this thing built please come back and let us know how it went. I would be curious.

    Ron
     
  11. Anton D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 18, 2015
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    just found this internal circuit diagram on the net for a 2 lead output model (not mine).
    yd-010sd1-1-sch__85312_1406591663_1280_1280.gif

    This would agree with Bills theory that the 2 hv output leads are isolated from the dc in. Would I therfore be correct in saying that the lower of the two output leads should be connected to the ground pin? Still got the problem of both output leads being the sme colour.
     
  12. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    Could well be it. Should that be the case you can slice a potato in half lengthwise. Connect each white wire to a short copper wire and shove the copper wires in the potato at opposite ends. Turn it on and wait a few min. One wire may have some green discoloration around the wire. That would be the Negative lead.

    In good conscience I should point out at this point that these devices generally output current in the nano amp range so even with the high voltage won't be harmful. Not shown in the multiplier circuit posted is they generally have a 2 to 4 or greater Meg Ohm resistor at the output to limit current depending on design. I am not familiar with the units posted so just be real careful as to high voltage.

    Ron
     
  13. killivolt

    Active Member

    Jan 10, 2010
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    If this is correct and this is a DC circuit you will see the green on the potato on one rod ( As ron said); However; if this is an AC circuit and I believe you will have green on both copper rods.

    kv
     
  14. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    Never gave it much thought. I know from experiments I did as a kid the Negative will discolor sort of green and the Positive will just bubble but I never tried AC. Made batteries from potatoes and lemons that lit a LED, while not very exciting it was amusing. Cooked hot dogs using US 120 VAC mains which was amusing, just don't touch the hot dog. :) Maybe tomorrow I will dig out a 12 volt transformer (keeping things safe) and shove the leads in a potato. Retired people have this tremendous surplus of time on their hands and I don't want to be a Walmart greeter.

    Ron
     
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  15. BillB3857

    Senior Member

    Feb 28, 2009
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    If the 12 volt tranformer you are going to use is AC output, you may fry your HV generator. If a 12 volt DC walwart, make sure of polarity when connecting.
     
  16. killivolt

    Active Member

    Jan 10, 2010
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    I think he'll just use an Walwart AC power supply. No HV involved.


    kv

    Edit: Just to prove that it will have green on both sides.
     
  17. BillB3857

    Senior Member

    Feb 28, 2009
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    Doesn't the ion generator make high voltage? Doesn't it need 12 volt DC as its input? What am I missing? Or is he just testing the potato?


    OOOPS. My bad... Reloadron wan't the OP trying to figure out the ion generator....
     
  18. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
    963
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    OK, the ion generator is no more than a high voltage, very low current DC supply. They typically take 12 VDC and have an oscillator drive a small transformer. The transformer in turn drives a string of voltage multipliers using diodes and capacitors the output of which is a high DC voltage.
    The problem is the original poster ordered an ion generator pictured earlier in the thread. Unlike most devices like this it did not come with a data sheet. The unit has a black and red wire on one end that look to be standard light gauge wire with standard insulation. The opposite end has a pair of white wires which look to have high voltage insulation. So the question begs what are the unmarked white wires. Maybe they are a redundant output pair? Maybe they are HV with a + and - unmarked?
    Enter the potato. The original poster made no mention of having a meter or any measuring tools. Thus I suggested the potato trick. If the white wires do have polarity they should behave as I mentioned.
    So what it comes down to is the OP has this supposed ion generator power supply which really can't easily be identified. The images are posted back in the thread. Beats the heck out of me, :)

    Ron
     
  19. Anton D

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 18, 2015
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    Wow, lots of interest. Have to work away for a couple of weeks, as soon as I get home I will raid the wifes potatoes and get back to you.
     
  20. Reloadron

    Active Member

    Jan 15, 2015
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    Have a safe road trip. :)

    Ron
     
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