Need to Access NAND Memory Chips Directly - Need Assistance

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by cqjb, Nov 3, 2006.

  1. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    :rolleyes: Hi everyone

    I need a solution to a problem, I hope someone can help me find a solution for this issue/s.

    We have a need to pull data off NAND memory chips when the boards around them fail; to pull data of the chip directly.

    Can anyone please send me in the right direction so that we have a solution for this? A contact a person, developer, phone number etc.

    One Idea: A device with wires attached on one end and a plug that the legs from the NAND chip plugs into (both sides of wafer)?

    Contact me at
    treehopper @ yahoo e-mail address (No Spam)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
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    I think that approach has very little chance of success since the surrounding chips may influence your ability to access the data. I think that you need to remove the chip(s) from the board and insert them into a socket fixture. I will be surprised if anyone comes up with an alternative.

    BTW I also think the technology of the chip (NAND) is completely irrelevant to this problem.
     
  3. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Hi,

    These have to be static ram - right? If so, the only likely way to do data retrieval is to get them off the board and into a fixture. Your electrical connections are going to have to be very good for this to work.
     
  4. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
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    Do these static RAMs retain their data when the power is removed? I thought they were FLASH chips.
     
  5. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Typically static RAM does not retain data after power down, however should the power supply remain they can hold data indefinately (i.e. they do not require periodic refreshing due to charge redistribution) due to their static-latch based structure.

    There are examples of Non-Volitile (static) RAM (NVRAM) which are designed to retain data after power-down.

    The primary types of non-volitile memory storage used are as Papabravo says Flash, but also magnetic and optical structures and ROM. As for recovery, there are specialist companies that can retrieve data from such non-volitile devices, even in the event of serious damage to the hardware concerned. However, it does come at a price.

    Dave
     
  6. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    "the only likely way to do data retrieval is to get them off the board and into a fixture"

    Yes this is exactly what I need, you are correct, this is what I am asking here.

    Someone who understand these things will know what I need, can someone please send me in the right direction, someone who knows how to do this, send me a contact, name, number etc. Would be appreciated.

    Send to treehopper - yahoo - c*o*m
     
  7. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    Can someone please send me to an Electrical Engineer that knows about this stuff, can come up with a solution to solve this issue?
     
  8. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
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    You don't need an Electrical Engineer, you need a comptent technician with access to a desoldering machine. Once the chips are off the board then you need someone to make a fixture to read the data. That person is probably the same technician who removed the chips in the first place.

    What is your area of expertise by the way?
     
  9. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    There are many dedicated companies that perform data recovery/retrieval, Google "data retrieval" or "data recovery" and it will return a long list of companies you can go to. They are the people to ask since this is a niche electronics application and is not something that is readily available from general electronics businesses.

    Someone may be able to recommend you a firm they have had dealings with, but I certainly can't.

    Dave
     
  10. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    Dave & Papabravo, thanks for the replies below.

    "Once the chips are off the board then you need someone to make a fixture to read the data.."

    "Someone may be able to recommend you a firm they have had dealings with, but I certainly can't."


    I need someone who can make this fixture for sure, please advice, anyone who knows of such a person or firm. This is my original question.. I need the the fixture created.

    We are a data recovery company, so contacting one will not help. We need to be able to do this ourselves.

    I do think an electrical engineer WILL be needed, as the process requires this in my opinion; it is not so easy to just pull the data off as there is a need for certain voltages and crystals to manipulate the data.
     
  11. hgmjr

    Moderator

    Jan 28, 2005
    9,030
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    cqjb,

    You may be able to contact Samsung and find out if the devices in question support JTAG testability.

    If so, then you would have an outside chance of reading the parts contents using the four pins assigned to JTAG. I looked at a typical datasheet and there are a large number of unused pins labeled "no connection". It is possible that some of these pins are used to implement the JTAG input/output lines.

    hgmjr
     
  12. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    hgmjr - sent you a message

    Still looking for assistance from those in this field, if anyone can assist please advise.
     
  13. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Hi cqjb,

    Can I ask, are you looking for someone who can give you access to their process or are you looking to develop your own process to allow you to perform the data retrieval?

    Dave
     
  14. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    0
    Dave

    I am looking to pay someone to help come up with a process or a product so that we can retrieve the data on this NAND chip.
     
  15. Søren

    Senior Member

    Sep 2, 2006
    472
    28
    Hi,

    If it's something you're gonna do on a regular basis, you could get the company, that you're doing this for, to supply you with a working board with a ZIF socket for the NAND flash installed, then you'd just have to desolder the chip with a hot air station, insert it into the working board and read out the content (I assume the board has this ability in the first place).

    Otherwise, a reader for the NAND flash could be made, again with a ZIF socket for the flash chip, for the sole purpose of a full memory dump to a PC or whatever.
    You'd stilll need to desolder the chip though, unless the board could be redesigned for in-circuit reading (probably not realizable if it's supposed to go full speed in daily use).
     
  16. cqjb

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 3, 2006
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    This is exactly what I need, so if someone can contact me with the solution, that is what I am asking for. Not sure where to get a ZIF socket for this to work. The desolder part is easy for us.

    1) I need to pull the data off
    2) Need something someone can make to connect the chip to a source PC to pull the data off.
     
  17. Søren

    Senior Member

    Sep 2, 2006
    472
    28
    Hi,

    I'm in Denmark, so you probably need to find someone else for the actual work.


    Perhaps here http://www.msystems.com/site/en-US/Support/DeveloperZone/EvaluationDevelpment/DevelopmentSockets.htm
    (lots of places to get them exists).


    I assume it's a 8Gb (1Gx8) chip ?
    A quick glance of a datasheet of what is supposedly a newer production batch of the same chip just gave me an idea (sorry, it's "unfiltered" and I am overdue for a dinner date, so it might be wrong).
    It seems to be organized similar to SmartMedia cards (which Samsung makes as well), so perhaps a ZIF-socket mounted in a SmartMedia card reader would be the easy solution, as it would then just be a matter of matching the pins.
    However, data probably isn't organized in a FAT structure, so perhaps special software would still have to be made.

    Well, my fair maiden is probably at the boiling point now, so I'll have to scoot...
     
  18. theamber

    Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
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    0
    Hi, what kind of data do you want to retrieve? if it is just hexcode or a serial number you may do it via a Jtag but you need to power the chip and be careful if you make a mistake you will damage the chip. Or best take the chip out and use an universal programmer like an XPPRo 3000 that can read that particular family, you may need a special fixture to connect it that you can get from the universal programmer manufacturer. Many people take those chips out of cable modems make clones out of them, install them in another modem and then can have free internet. Is a very easy task if you have the programmer and the hot air station.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  19. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    15,815
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    You may be a bit too late - this thread is about 1 1/2 years old.
     
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