Need help

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Shadowalker, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    I am a former world champion benchrest shooter where reading the wind is a major item in achieving extreme accuracy.

    I have a hard wired anemometer that I presently use at 25 meters that I need changed to wireless.
    Can anybody or is anybody interested in doing this project?

    Desperate inTexas
     
  2. tshuck

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2012
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    How many wires come from the anemometer? Do you know what the wires are?

    What kind of range are we talking here?

    What is your skill level in electronics?
     
  3. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    I use wind flags/pinwheels down range and a handheld anemometer for initial read.

    Were you going to have more wind speed sensors downrange? Would they have a tail to pivot into the wind automatically?

    What is the wireless distance you are trying to achieve?

    What is your experience with electronics, probably programming on this one as well?

    --ETA: At 25yd target distance, the wind won't really have time to affect flight path, unless you are shooting in hurricane conditions.
     
  4. spinnaker

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 29, 2009
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    Holy molly, who would have thought thatoneguy was a trained sniper. :)
     
  5. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    Two wires come from the sending unit.
    RANGE : 50 YD MAX.
    Minor electronics exp.

    Wind flags are used downrange hand held is useless for my application and only tells you info at the bench. The projectile stablizes at 15 feet out.

    Trust me, all conditions make a difference. That's why we tune in a tube. Our bulls eye is .060 at 25 meters with a 14 gr projectile. We shoot a 25 spot target clean.

    Thanks for the return mail.
     
  6. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    What unit are you using now? I understand the differences at bench and midrange. I don't do benchrest, more of a 1k shooter but principles are similar.

    I have some BR friends, and have seen "one hole" groups come in 3rd, so I understand what you are looking for.

    I was wondering if you were going to be spreading sensors every 25 yds between you and the target, or if you were shooting at 25yds.

    What information and format are you looking for? e.g. Fed into notebook running ballistic software, an LCD display showing speed and direction, or speed only?

    Is there a reason you can't use an Off the shelf solution? Since temperature and humidity are needed anyway.
     
  7. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    Off the shelf costs are about $1000 way beyond my bank acct. plus the speeds start at 2 to 5 mph they do not go down as slow as my present rebuilt anemometer which is about .5 mph. I am looking at a max. sending distance of 50 yds.

    Just need one sensor unless I can somehow couple more into my meter, three would be even better which will average the conditions. However there is a problem as the first sender has more affect on the projectile POI than the longer one.

    I have found digital meters are not as good as meters with a needle. You can anticipate the needle's movement where you cannot the digital numbers.

    I now build and shoot International Air rifles and are co founder of the United States Air Rifle Benchrest Assn. My guns are all custom made at about $4000 each in two calibers. .117 and 22

    Being able to read the wind is the 3rd leg in the extreme accuracy equation. I presently use bearing mounted flags I made with bearings that weigh 4 ounces being presently used but the anemometer is the most accurate method I have come up with yet and need to figure out how to pull this off. Hope you can help me as I have been at this quest for years.

    PLEASE send me an email at <SNIP> so I can link up with you by phone.
    You need to know you are God sent if we can pull this off for me.
    Thanks Frank
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 8, 2013
  8. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    THATONEGUY

    How can I contact you by phone???

    Frank in TX
     
  9. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    The required format is just to the meter no fancy stuff needed at all.
    I know about air density and monitor it already, altho it would be on my wish list to have on my meter I will settle for basics at this point.
     
  10. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    No, not due to personal reasons, but non-compete things with my employer.

    I can guide you through a bit.

    If your experience with electronics isn't too great, you could go to a local college and see if a student would like to put it together.

    I'm thinking simple method, get a cheap anemometer for the precise blade shape/bearings, and use it's output to an Arduino with a Zigbee wireless adapter (wireless serial). At the bench end, another Zigbee feeding either another Arduino to display the data, or a PC to plot the data, or find the method of interfacing to your base unit to turn the wireless back into a wired connection.

    This isn't a trivial task. I shoot high power and Bullseye, with some airgun during winter, but that's all indoors.

    Your measurement will rely on the precision of the downrange meter, buf if you already have one, decoding the protocol sent over wires and making it wireless would be something most smarter students could do, and some members here if they are interested. It wouldn't be free, but I don't think it would cost as much as an off the shelf solution, either.

    What is your physical location, hopefully in the US, and a member of this forum near you may be willing to help for some extra hobby cash. "Texas" doesn't narrow it down much, I am only half-way to San Antonio from here when I cross the TX border. :D
     
  11. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    I live in Gilmer Texas about 60 miles from Shreveport La. and 2 hrs south of Dallas just off the East West I-20 Interstate. We have no electrical schools in the area that I am aware of as the schools and a student was my first attempt at resolution. Tried all the electrical stores and RC stores for contacts just hoping.......Found none.
    I will go on the internet and acquaint myself with the items you have suggested to better understand how they work in the grande scheme of things I wish to acomplish.
    You have no idea how thankful I am that you keep showing up here with suggestions..................I really need to make this project work I just lack the ability. Would be forever indebted to you if you could turn me on to someone who would help. More than willing to pay.
    Thanks Frank
     
  12. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    If you can find out what protocol is used by the wired remote to send data over the wire back to the main station, it would simplify things.

    How many wires are going to the remote?

    If it's only 4, then something like power +/Gnd, Tx and Rx are suggested, some sort of serial protocol. If that is the case, you'd need to convert that protocol to something like a ZigBee RS232 protocol at the sending end, and re-construct the protocol at the receiving end.

    If the remote simply sends pulses back, and no direction of wind, then some scheme would need to be figured out how to translate that into RS232 serial data, and re-made into pulses at the base end.

    Worse case would be an analog signal from the remote, with varying voltages indicating varying wind speeds. I sort of doubt this method is used due to the amount of wire to the remote (50 yds effective wire parasitic resistance that can change analog signals). This is the reason most modern telemetry (wired or wireless) are purely digital solutions.

    If you can find out what type of interface is used by the wireless remotes, even the names on the connector pin-out diagram are usually a hint, that would make it easier.

    I've only outlined the basic concept, adding an Arduino or better uC for the 'brain' at either end. You can think of ZigBee as an RS232 to wireless or wireless to RS232 converter.

    If you can provide that info, somebody here may be interested in building a remote wind speed sensor. Your application is based on precision for ballistic reasons, but the general solution could be used for other home weather stations as well.

    Maybe one of them will read this and decide they want to have a shot at it. I have helped out on PICAXE based projects, but not with wireless in addition. PICAXE is just another "beginner" microcontroller programmed in BASIC, rather than C, like the Arduino.

    There are sites, I remember rentacoder as being one, where you could find contractors for programming projects, I'm not sure if that one still exists, or if there's one oriented more toward electronic projects as well.
     
  13. MrChips

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    Oct 2, 2009
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  14. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    Off the shelf weather stations are very crude in velocity and direction for my usage I had one years ago and immediatly upgraded to home made. It is not velocity I really need only a reference number.
    Let's say I start a string of 25 shots with the wind from a particular direction ( wind direction and speed both vary the projectiles flight path) and my needle is on number Three. This may be .5 or 3 mph wind or anything ,the data coming from my aneomometer hard wired to my bench display. The goal is to shoot in the exact conditions every time as any variation in same affects the projectiles point of impact.
    In order to have all my remaining shots go in the same place like one on top of the other I have to shoot only when the direction does not change and the wind velocity needle is on #3. That is as simple as I can explain it.


    Frank
     
  15. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    Wires coming from the aneomometer are only two. It is a simple weather aneomometer purchaced from "Down East" and rebuilt and balanced it to work in very low conditions like .5mph. It had a small reference meter that I replaced with a large VU meter using the supplied board and changing the housing. Had a friend do all the wiring.

    Frank
     
  16. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    Guys, what is the possibility of using a laser to transmit the aneomometers revolutions to a reciever at my bench?

    thanks, frank
     
  17. John P

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 14, 2008
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    If the anemometer has 2 wires, what is on them? There are various ways to make an anemometer, and if you're thinking about a data transmission system, you need to know how the data comes out of the instrument.

    A laser might work, but you'd have to aim it from source to target. I'd have thought a short-range radio link would be easy to set up.

    http://www.explainthatstuff.com/anemometers.html

    Does anyone ever make anemometers which work by measuring how much energy gets removed from a heated probe? I'd have thought that would work better in low wind speed than anything with moving parts.
     
  18. Shadowalker

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 7, 2013
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    I am going to assume and only by looking at it the aneomometer has two magnets in it's head and a sensor goes by it every revolution sending out a pulse or power.

    Frank
     
  19. John P

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 14, 2008
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    OK, that makes sense. It could actually be as simple as a solenoid mounted by the shaft, and a magnet spins near to it and generates a pulse in the coil each time it passes. If the N and S poles of the magnet are both used, then you'd see alternating positive and negative pulses. One thing to beware of with that setup is that if you draw any current from the coil, you're tending to damp out the motion of the shaft and thus get an inaccurate reading. But a voltage sensor could work without loading the coil electrically.
     
  20. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    Probably a hall sensor rather than a coil. Every time a magnet passes the hall it gives a pulse.
     
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