Need help with this voltage amplitude circuit.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by h2opower, Aug 30, 2009.

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  1. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Now the wire size of the primary is .280 mm at an inductance of .375 mh. If someone can help me identify the rest of the items in figure 4 that would be great. I do know that Q4 & Q5 is a darlington transistor : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlington_transistor but not much more than this. Can someone help me complete the missing parts of the circuit?

    Thanks,
    h2opower.
     
  2. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    Things like what resistors, what is A22, what type of darlington transistor, for I am not all that good with circuits and need a hand big time.
     
  3. bertus

    Administrator

    Apr 5, 2008
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    Hello,

    Where did you get the schematic?
    It is odd that there are no values at all in the schematic.
    The A numbers are just numbers to reference the IC's in the schematic.
    They do not tell anything about the IC's themselves.

    Greetings,
    Bertus
     
  4. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    The other op amps, A24 and A25, are LM741's, powered with 13.7VDC, as found on the large schematic. It appears it is a linear voltage regulator. It's a bit overcomplicated for the job, where does Point J connect?

    LM741's are among the oldest of the op amp families, and come with a rather large list of deficiencies. They are finicky, slow (emphasis on slow), and not that stable. They are generally used by schools to teach, because they are also cheap (and new students tend to blow em in batches).
     
  5. steinar96

    Active Member

    Apr 18, 2009
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    This is the problem with mayer's circuits....he left plenty plenty and plenty of "find it out yourself" gaps in his work. Bit odd isnt it ?

    A short answer to your question is that you are going to have to calculate all the values yourself. By looking at the circuit it certainly isnt straightforward or easy work to even guess what values they could have. This schematic is a big question mark.

    What A22 is is also a big question. It could be anything. A22 sounds like reference to something in his own work. It certainly isnt a comercial component i think
     
  6. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    As Meyer's stuff is all bogus, this is back in a better location.

    Meyer never did place any values or anything else on his circuits (how could he, he had no background in electronics). This appears to be a scammer's modification of Meyer's VIC. It won't work, either.
     
  7. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Just a thought, define what you want, then let's work on design. You will find there has been a huge amount of work done at this site by other people trying to do the same thing, and they've recieved a large amount of design help, both in materials and actual electronics design work. Most of what is needed isn't really high tech, it is basically off the shelf technology.

    That voltage regulator that you asked about is fairly behind the times, it wasn't that good or well designed when it was new. The technology behind voltage regulators, current regulators, and switching high current has moved on to the point that efficiencies are way up there. I would suggest a thorough reseach on this site, more than likely most of the ideas you will come up with have been explored to death.
     
  8. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    'J' connects to the RPM voltage and torque sensing of the engine controls both need to control the voltage amplitude so the engine will work.

    Again thanks for all of your help on this.
     
  9. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    I came here for help for electronic circuits is not my strong suit. This is the last part I have to do before starting engine trails. And I couldn't agree with you more in that Stanley Meyer didn't make figuring out his work easy, the greedy basterd. In the end it was his greed that has kept the technology out of the hands of the masses.

    Difine what I want?
    The missing parts or something else that will work in it's place so that the circuit will work. Please help me to figure out this circuit for I have no where else to turn. I am good in science, math, and physics, and have a strong background in mechanics and architecture. I only have basic knowlegde in circuits. That is why I came here for help for I really need it.

    Thanks everyone,
    h2opower.
     
  10. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    Please I am no scammer, I have just come to a point of needing someones help. I beg of you to please not lump me with the miss information guys, for I am not apart of that big group. All I am asking is for some help with this circuit nothing more, if I get it working, you get it working for I will not hold anything back. The only way any of us will see this technology is for it to be given away, and I fully belive that.

    I just need a hand right now and I am truly asking for help.

    Thanks,
    h2opower.
     
  11. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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  12. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Actually it is the wrong polarity, you need a NPN type. What part of the country (or world) are you in? The reason I ask is there are parts houses pretty much everywhere, including Radio Shacks in the United States. I do not recommend Radio Shack, primarily because they are expensive. If you can make a list and use one of several online vendors you will save a wad of cash.

    You can safely substitute a LM1558 (or a 1458), which is a dual op amp for the 741. They have slightly better specs. A LM324 is a quad op amp (4 in a package). Both of these are available from Radio Shack, and pretty much everyone else.

    If you haven't got one already be prepared to invest in a protoboard, also available from the shack and everyone else, along with some 24 gage wire.

    [​IMG] . [​IMG]

    Again, Radio Shack has it, but they are my second (or third, or less choice). The mark up buying from them is around 100%.

    For example, one of my favorite vendors (due to the fact they are close to my house, and will accept walk ins even though they are geared for the internet) has the following selection.

    http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=273

    The last item on that page is the same item Radio Shack sells, theirs for $6, RS for $15.

    The reason you will need a protoboard is you will be creating circuits from scratch, and will need to test designs out. This is common for this hobby. You will also occasionally mess up and let the smoke out of the part. Again, a common occurrence for this hobby.

    If you are serious about this we'll be teaching you electronics. We are very much about learning here. The site is focused around an open source text book whose volumes you see across the top, they will be your friend. There is a lot of similar resources throughout the web, we are one of the better ones, but because we are you will find many members also referring to the other sources also.

    You can learn about me here...

    Bill's Index

    I am not one of the best or brightest, but I am verbose and willing to teach. My time is limited nowdays, so focus on the immediate project you are working on, and the solution.

    You may have guessed, have have had a lot of people who were true believers of HHO. Some following the learning option, and left with a background of electronics they didn't have before, some left immediately. The site is pretty sensitized to the subject, but as long as you focus of the circuit you won't have any problem.

    Electronics in general is a discipline that is heavily based in science. Most of our advanced types are scientists in their own right, and I consider myself an amateur scientist. The experiment and the data are the thing, not beliefs or biases. Everyone has the latter of course, but if you make an assertion, be prepared to back it up with real data (preferably not second hand). I think it is to my credit that I will admit if I'm wrong when I find I have made a mistake, most of the better members will. We have had some around here who are convinced they can't make a mistake, they don't thrive here.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2009
  13. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    Thanks,
    I am on the west coast, and I strive to follow the scientific method when doing all of my testing, if I didn't I wouldn't learn from my mistakes and/or have anyone follow my work. For the most part I have never use a bread board, I have been making the circuits on a real board and if it burns up so be it. So far nothing has burned up thank God. If people are willing to teach me I am willing to learn. I up dated my profile so people can get to know me better. I figure gotta come out of the box sometime, right?

    Since I am at the end of the water for fuel technology, all I need is this part of the circuit to work and it's on to real engine trails. I have done all the science and math as to how it works, now I just have to finish building it. The circuit is that last part for me and the hardest since circuits keep changing more than any other field of study. I truly look up to EE's for there work in college was much harder than mine when I was studing ME.

    Thanks for giving me a chance to finish, and a chance at becoming energy independent.

    h2opower.
     
  14. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    I got the schematic from a friend and had him do some modifications on it for me as I am addapting it for a different use than the origial design called for. Any ideas come to mind as of what that A22 could be? The add on schematic is from here: http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/wo92-4.jpg for I need a way to control the circuit from the engines RPM and torque sensing voltages.
     
  15. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    A22 is probably a 3 terminal regulator such as a LM7812 or a LM7815. VDD is likely the output of the device, if it is meant to be 5V then the part number is LM7805.
     
  16. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
    22,182
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    Well, A22 wouldn't have been an 7815, as the dropout for the 78xx series regulators is 2v. A 7812 would be pushing it. 7810, 7809, 7808, or 7805 would be more likely. However, I don't see Vdd labeled anywhere except at the output of the regulator.

    Ol' Stanley Meyer was quite the flim-flam man. One really has to wonder how it's possible to take water, which is an ash, expend energy to split it apart into hydrogen and oxygen, and then burn it again - and wind up getting more energy out than was put into the process? It violates the conservation of energy laws, so it just can't work.

    I'll bet Stanley had a cylinder of propane or butane under the seat of his "water powered" dune buggy.

    Plenty of folks have spent plenty of time and money on projects such as this. I haven't heard of anyone being successful at it yet, which really doesn't surprise me. I'm not very optimistic about this project being the first successful project of the genre, either.
     
  17. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    Thanks everyone for your help with this circuit. The way I have been going about this project is one item at a time, and now I am on the controling circuit for the engine. Stanley Meyer really didn't want anyone to be able to follow his work so he show'd only what he had to just to get by.

    If anyone can come up with a better way to control the voltage amplitude than this fig.#4 circuit I will use it. What it has to do is take the signal from the RPM and torque sensing sensor and us it to control the voltage amplitude of the voltage going to the primary coil so that with increased RPM we get an increase in voltage and when going up hills the torque sensing sensor will increase the voltage as the load to the engine will have increased.

    The primary has an inductance of .375h or 375 mh. The circuit is planned to be pulsed between 40-55 k Hz and will be use for the Gas Processor and the injectors. Now I am also thinking of replacing most of the 555's with this: [​IMG] the 40106 is more effiecnt than the 555's from what I have read about them, but all of you are the pro's so I will see what everyone here has to say, though I did buy three of them.

    Again thanks for helping,
    h2opower.
     
  18. blueroomelectronics

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 22, 2007
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    Do you know water doesn't resonate in the kHz range?
     
  19. h2opower

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Aug 30, 2009
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    Yes, this is not planned for resonance with the water but the circuit and the time frame in which it has to deal with the ambient air or the water mist. Trust me I am not following his words, I am following the science behind the technology.

    h2opower.
     
  20. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Just so you are aware of how Meyer stated the effect on his patent...

    He indicated a source voltage of 26 VDC. His VIC (we would call it a step up transformer) had a 1:5 turns ratio, so his claimed results were at around 130 volts. His diode and "bifilar" coils were not in circuit in a manner that makes sense electronically. No further voltage multiplication would have been possible, despite his claims.

    So far, the resonance effect is to enable the water molecules to come apart with no input energy. The claimed frequencies - and those possible with the components stated - are simply too low. The water molecule has a set of resonant frequencies, but way up in the IR region. Not at the 950 nm emission of most IRLED's, by the way.

    If you plan on following the scheme in your latest post, be aware that Meyer had no part of it. You are also going to be dealing with a dangerously high voltage that can create arcs to your body, as well as generating soft X-rays. Be more than careful - this can be lethal.

    The salient question I would raise - why the high voltage? Way back in 1820, Michael Faraday showed that electrolysis takes place at a much lower voltage - just over 1.23 volts. You might find the material interesting - http://www.nmsea.org/Curriculum/7_12/electrolysis/electrolysis.htm

    My point is this - if Meyer claimed to have his stuff running at 130 volts and some frequency (the claims on the net go from 6 KHz to 143 KHz), why are the circuits supposedly based on his work needing impossibly high voltages? But, if you have taken the time to read through the material I linked you to, you are aware of this already.
     
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