Need help making a USB programing cable for a Crane remote control

Discussion in 'Programmer's Corner' started by diebog, Jun 20, 2015.

  1. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    I bought this wireless remote control from China that is used for a crane setup and I am planning using on a piece of equipment that has the same functions as a crane does (UP,Down,Left,Right,etc) Here is a link to the item lihttp://www.aliexpress.com/item/F21-12S-industrial-wireless-remote-control/1849738925.html After I got it I realized I needed a way to program the buttons to be momentary, lock on, etc. I was able to download the program to set all the parameters, so I am good on that. I just need to make a cable to connect to the 6 pin data port on the controller which looks like this

    data plug.png

    Here is what I found they sell in China, but they will only sell to companys that make these remotes. Its not for just anyone to buy. So I have to make my own.
    data cable.png

    I was able to get the place in chine I bought the remote from to send me a schematic of the USB writer and here is what they sent me.
    schematic.png

    I bought this USB to TTL thinking it would do what I needed but I didn't realize it was lacking the RTS signal. And I am sure there is more that I am missing. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FT232RL-USB-to-TTL-Not-Counterfeit-NEW-SHIP-FROM-USA-/261455019076?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cdfeefc44

    I also have one of these left over from another project. USB to Serial RS232 with DB9 connector. I checked the pinout and I thought it may work, but there is no VCC/3.3 out put to connect to Pin 2 (one the schematic above the"WRI" connector) The IC's on this pcb are the FT232RL (which is the same one on the USB to TTL I bought) and the ZT213LEEA.
    upload_2015-6-20_12-37-14.jpeg

    Looking at the schematic and a little research I did, it looks like the FT232RL is the same as the PL2303HX in the schematic but just a more reliable IC. The outputs from this FT IC go into the 74HC14D ( Data sheet http://exploringarduino.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/74HC14-datasheet.pdf ) and out to the writer port on the controller. I don't understand what this 74H ic does and if its needed. I read some info that it could be substituted with SOT-23 transistors. But the picture above of the cable they sell in China doesn't have this 74C14D. So I don't know what to make of it. That picture I found in a search and has no relation to the schematic I got from the company I got the remote controller from.

    I also see in the schematic on the PL2303 pins 27 and 28 they have an OSC/Crystal? The data sheet ( http://www.prolific.com.tw/UserFiles/files/ds_pl2303HXD_v1_4_4.pdf ) says for pin 27 and 28 reserved pin and No Connection. So I don't quite get that either.

    So what do I need to do to get this to work? I thought about using the USB to TTL board and cutting the trace from CTS and putting a jumper to the RTS and cutting the 5v trace and doing the same and connecting to the 3.3 instead. This would match the schematic pinout less the 74HC14D. I may be way off, but I just do not know enough about this stuff and how it communicates so I figured I needed to ask for help.

    Sorry if my post is long and has useless info, I just like to give all the info I have when asking a question. I appreciate any info and direction/suggestions you have. Thanks

    Jeremy
     
  2. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    I was thinking I didn't put this in the right section. Maybe it should of been in projects? If so, please forgive my mistake. I thought sense it was programing related that it would go here, but I am not sure now.
     
  3. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    Anyone have any suggestions? Am I asking in the wrong place?
     
  4. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    I really could use some help here. Please let me know if I posted in the wrong place.
     
  5. JWHassler

    Member

    Sep 25, 2013
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    You seem to be a few hundred bucks invested and a few gigabytes researched on this already, making you the expert, but....

    There are lots of these things available on-line: almost what you need, minus the 'C14 level-shifter(?)/inverter.

    The Prolific 2303-xx devices come in several variants, including one with the USB-oscillator on-chip, so that difference does not seem relevant.
    If the downloader-program expects to see a Prolific-based interface, the FTDI might not work.
    The fact that the programmer-manufacturer won't sell to you is unfortunate. If it's a volume consideration, you still might find someone who sells onesies
     
  6. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
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    It is a CMOS hex Schmitt inverter IC used here, along with the transistor, to buffer the signals from/to the 2303 and to invert DTR_N.
    The pic of the Chinese adapter shows an oscillator crystal above the IC, so must be using an earlier version of the 2303, since the latest revision (rev D) has a built-in oscillator (as is clear from the datasheet, where pins 27 and 28 are unused). It doesn't appear to show a buffering IC (unless that's hidden by the ribbon cable). Likewise the schematic shows an external crystal on pins 27 and 28, so relates to an early-version 2303.
     
  7. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    Thanks for the responses guys. So is this buffering chip really needed for this application? Is it possible they used it because the PL chip back then was real noisy and it was their solution to fix the noisy outputs? From the info I have read, the newer chips that have a built in oscillator like this PL chip and the FT are designed allot better. So If I tried it without using this inverter, can it ruin anything? What are the signs that would mean it needs this buffering chip? Would it just not work at all?

    I only need one of these to program this remote. So I just got to figure a way to do this. Is there a specific USB chip out there that does what I need? All I find are USB to TTL or RS232 or RSXXXX but when I check each one out they are for things like modems and other types of programing. Going off this schematic, what would a USB converter chip be called?

    Also I ran across a picture in my searches of another programing cable for these remotes that looked like my USB to serial RS232 cable with the DB9 plug and there was a adapter that went from the DB9 to the 6pin flat connector which plugs in the remote. The pinout for the serial DB9 plig has all the connections except for the 3.3+/VCC pin. I thought about taking one of the pins not being used and hook up to the 3.3v on the FT chip but I don't understand the difference between how the serial RS232 vs the TTL communicates and or if it will work. I hope I am making sense here. Will any of these ideas work?

    The schematic shows the remote needs RXD, TDX, DTR_N, RTS_N, Ground, and 3.3v Now does it matter if it comes from a TTL signal or serial RS232?
     
  8. JWHassler

    Member

    Sep 25, 2013
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    The driver program wants to see a PL2303 , unless you wrote your own and can modify it for an FTDI or other device.

    It looks like maybe your controller uses actual RS232 levels on Tx/Rx and the circuit shown is just a real cheapskate's USB-RS232 converter,
    but with the RTSn/DTSn at TTL-levels (and RTSn inverted.) In that case, you could hack up an OTS converter with an HC14.

    Here's some info on the various Prolific chips.
     
  9. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
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    Putting 5V on to a controller input expecting 3.3V may not have a happy outcome :eek:.
     
  10. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    So can an OTS converter with an HC14 be bought easily?
     
  11. JWHassler

    Member

    Sep 25, 2013
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    I don't know: you talked to some people who make one and they said 'no sale.'
    It's time for a tedious search, after which you might have to make one yourself. But you have a schematic.
     
  12. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
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    The HC14 is easy to source. Do you have a PL2303? Can you source a 6-pin connector to mate with the one on the remote?
     
  13. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    I guess I will need to make one. I have the 6 pin connector and I have a 14 pin inverter but not pl chip. I know tnere are tons of fakes out there, where is a good place to buy one? And do i need to order the 12m oacillator? What about the transistor? There is no part number listed, what should i get as far as the correct transistor?
     
  14. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    How difficult is it to reprogram the FT chip to act like the PL chip. If its not to hard, I have a breakout board I can attach the ft chip to. Im guessing some sort of usb cable needs to be connected to certain pins to program it? I have no idea whats involved. but can follow instructions easily. I was hoping someone could send me the code needed, or is this just not even possible?

    I do have an MC14093BDG http://www.mouser.com/Search/Produc...BDGvirtualkey58410000virtualkey863-MC14093BDG left over. It as the same pinout as the HC14 but it has a 3-18v range. The only other thing I saw was it was a little slower than the HC14, would this make any difference? If i could use this chip that would be great, but if it is to slow, then I can just get the HC14.

    Ive got everything to put all this together except the PL2303 chip, I was just going to order one from digikey but they don't carry it. So I figured just go to ebay but there are so many fakes out there, does anyone know a good seller for this chip?


    Another question I had on the oscillator, if you take a look at all the usb board with the "PL2302HX" chips, the all have a 12m oscillator on them. Which makes no sense because the HX chips were built with a 12m oscillator inside. And the PL2302HX chips doesn't even have the ability to use a external oscillator on pins 27 and 28 like the FT chip does. If you look at the data sheet for the FT chip it says that the chip can be programed to use an external oscillator if needed but factory setting is to use the one inside. So why does every board on ebay that I see with the prolific chip have an external oscillator? I can see if it was the PL2302 chip which did not have a built in oscillator, but these places are advertising that it has the PL2302HX chip. Is it possible this oscillator serves a different function? It just doesn't make sense to me.
    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...Xusb+PL2303hx.TRS1&_nkw=usb+PL2303hx&_sacat=0
     
  15. Alec_t

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    Sep 17, 2013
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    If you go to the Prolific site, they have some preferred suppliers listed.
    As for "why do they show an external oscillator", perhaps the sellers (not Prolific) are selling off old stock or someone hasn't bothered updating the photo.
     
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  16. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    I ended up placing an order for that chip with the outfit Prolific recommended. Now just got to wait till it arrives. In the mean time I need to make sure that the other components I have will do. No one confirmed yet if the MC14093BDG chip I have will work the same as the HC14. If it won't work, then I need to order one of these as well. And lastly, what should or do I use in place for the "TR" (transistor) shown in schematic. Will any one work? The schematic doesn't give a part number for this part.


    Also do you think the 10K and 100ohm resistors are needed?

    Again, thanks everyone for your help
     
  17. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
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    It won't. It's a quad 2-input NAND chip, not a hex inverter chip.
    TR can be almost any low-power NPN transistor, e.g. a 2N3904.
    Yes, the resistors are needed (no manufacturer knowingly includes unnecessary resistors :)).
     
  18. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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  19. Alec_t

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    That should do the job.
     
  20. diebog

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 23, 2013
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    Ok cool. So the only problem I have now is the company I ordered from screwed up my order for the pl chip and they are being aholes about it so I'm not usin them ever again. Which create a problem needing this pl chip. I don't think anyone said how hard or if it's possible for me to program the FT chip. Could someone explain what is involved to so?
     
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