Motor DC 12 Volts problem when controlling using PWM from Arduino

Discussion in 'Embedded Systems and Microcontrollers' started by BramLabs, Dec 30, 2015.

  1. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
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    Sir, i want to ask sir. I want to control motor DC 12 volt by using PWM from arduino. The circuit i'm using is as you can see below :
    tes.PNG

    And motor DC i'm using with is :

    436584_20130225032151.jpg
    The motor DC is not as big as can be seen in the picture. It's only 4 cm x 4 cm size.

    What i want to ask is that, when i connect motor DC directly to the 5 volt supply, the motor is moving. But when i connect it using arduino as the circuit i've already attached, and apply 100% duty cycle of PWM or 50%, it can't move at first time. It needs 'help' to move first with my hand, and then the motor is working greatly like when i directly connect it to the 5 volt supply. How can this happen ?
    It's like this motor when i'm controlling it using arduino, it needs like a 'STARTER' to move. But when i just connect it to the 5 volt supply, it works greatly, no need 'help' of my hand to get start.

    I also attach the arduino ground, emitter of the transistor and 5 volt supply ground together.

    Thank you sir for your help.
     
  2. mcgyvr

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 15, 2009
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    #1- Its a 12V motor so 5V isn't enough
    #2-That motor has internal electronics also and the PWM causes that to not work properly.
    Fans like that can only be powered with smooth DC voltage and not PWM DC
     
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  3. Robin Mitchell

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 25, 2009
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    Dont these fans get controlled by motherboards via PWM?
     
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  4. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,536
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    Usually they have a BLDC IC internally such as Pic TC653 fan controller.
    Max.
     
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  5. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    Thank you for your information sir.
    What makes me confuse is that why can't it work and need 'my hand help' also when i'm using 100% pulse PWM. It's like a smooth DC voltage isn't it ?
    And i'll try tomorrow using 12 V power supply. Thanks before for your information sir ^^
     
  6. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    I try using 12 V supply and it works greatly sir when controlling it using PWM from arduino. And also when i apply 50% PWM it's also work greatly without any 'help' with my hand.

    But still, i want to understand, why it didn't move when i applied lower voltage like 5 Volts or even lower T____T.
    In my opinion, we need a starter circuit to make it move when the voltage applied lower than 5 Volts or below it. ahahaaha..

    Thanks before sir !
     
  7. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,006
    3,232
    To run it at a low voltage you may have to initially apply a higher voltage (higher duty-cycle PWM) for a few seconds to get it started and then reduce the voltage.
     
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  8. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    Thank you sir for your information.

    Is there any kind of circuit for giving a starter instead of using PWM as a starter ?

    Thank you very much sir ! I really appreciate it !
     
  9. RRITESH KAKKAR

    Senior Member

    Jun 29, 2010
    2,831
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    Better to buy L298 H-Bridges
     
  10. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    Yeah, i guess so !
    Thank you btw sir for reminding me of L298 H-Bridges.
     
  11. shteii01

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2010
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    The problem is that you purposefully mismatched the parts.
    The manufacturer clearly stated what is needed to make their device to work properly. The key words here are: work and properly. You purposefully did not follow manufacturer's directions and, naturally, encountered a problem. Yes, you made the thing to work, but... now you are searching for additional circuit or circuits. If you had matched manufacturer's listed specifications, you would not have needed those additional circuits that you are now searching for!

    I realize that you probably don't have 12 volt dc supply. But consider:
    - the time you are wasting searching for the circuits to use your 5 volt dc supply
    - the additional parts you will need to buy and ship to build those additional circuits
    - the time spent on building those additional circuits
    If you add all that effort together, it might be cheaper to just get a 12 volt dc supply, just like manufacturer told you on the label to use IN THE FIRST PLACE.
     
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  12. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
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    How is that Better for his circuit. H-Bridge is bi-directional. You wanna blow his fan, literally.

    @BramLabs .
    A 12V fan will not start at 5V easily. You need to rotate the fan manually to overcome the starting current it needs.
    But I have used some fans ( 12V rated ) at 5V, it does start slowly. Most of them does not start. Some does. May be low current rated ones.
     
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  13. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    Thank you sir for your information. I really appreciate it ^^.
    Yeah, that was my mistake. I tried 12 volt dc supply and working with the PWM arduino and it worked greatly.
    And as a human with big interest in 'electronics' >_<v, i'm kinda wondering why when i'm connecting it directly to the supply of 5 V and it works greatly, but when i'm using PWM of arduino with 100% duty cycle ( My thought that was the same as giving it 5 Volt from the power supply but the difference is i'm controlling it using transistor TIP 102 as a switch ), and it's not working.
    I know that it would be much good if i follow the specification of the product. But when i made a mistake (giving with the 5 volt supply not 12 volt supply), the phenomenon showed up, and it was interesting to learn. ahhahaha....
    My thought for this answer is that like this :

    Connecting directly to 5 Volt supply :
    hal.png

    Connecting with the circuit i was using with ( controlling with 100% duty cycle of PWM using arduino uno ):
    hal2.png
    That was just my first thought. ahahahah..
    How's that sir ?

    Thank you before for your help ^^


    Why should i rotate the fan manually as i already tried to starting current it need sir ? Was it because the current not flowing at the first place ( Because of the switching transistor needs time, while this doesn't happen when i'm directly connecting the motor to the 5 V supply ). Or any reason sir ? ahahaha.... I just want to understand this phenomenon, because it's interesting to learn ^^

    Thank you sir btw for your answer. I really-really appreciate it ^^
     
  14. RRITESH KAKKAR

    Senior Member

    Jun 29, 2010
    2,831
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    But getting the direction pin permanently to one state.
    Then checking with multi meter as per the Fan terminal.
     
  15. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
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    TIP102 is a darlington device. The transistor will drop ~1.2V so you will end up 5V - ~1.2V = ~3.8V maximum to the Fan. If you try a MOSFET then it might work or may be a normal 1Amp transistor might even work.
    If you have a variable supply you can check with 4V to see if the fan starts to rotate.
     
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  16. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    Based on my calculation ( of course with your assumption ), i'll get :

    Ib = ( 5v - 1.2v [your assumption, the Vbe is 0.6v] ) / 1k ohm = 3.8 mA
    And i look at the datasheet of TIP 102 :
    sss.PNG

    Still, it would give me the saturation region. And the transistor TIP102, will work like a switch ( not in active region, and also not in cut-off region )
     
  17. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
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    Why don't you try a Single transistor, not a darlington.
    Or a MOSFET and see what happens
     
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  18. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    Okay sir, i'll try with 2n2222 later ^^
    Thanks before for your help, i really appreciate it !
     
  19. shteii01

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2010
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    I believe part of the problem is the amount of current that Arduino board can source.
    The label on your fan states that it can draw as much as 140 mA.
    Arduino board can source only about 40 mA? maximum. Normally it is likely to source 10-20 mA.

    That is why using Arduino boards for power is a Really Bad Idea. They simply do not have the power, they were not designed to be the power source. They really are CONTROL devices. You use them to control device. Use something else to power the device.
     
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  20. BramLabs

    Thread Starter Member

    Nov 21, 2013
    98
    5
    I didn't use arduino as my 5 volt power supply sir. I used external power supply like on the schematic at my first post.
    And BTW , when i'm directly connecting to the 5 Volt supply, i'm connecting with 2 options. First, i'm experimenting with using arduino as a power supply, and the second i'm experimenting using external power supply. The first and the second works greatly. I know arduino can maintain current up to, yeah, just say 40 mA. But it's work. I've tried it.
    So i think the problem isn't because of the arduino.
    Thank you sir btw for your help ^^

    This is the video when i'm connecting my fan using 5 Volt supply arduino. And it's work great without any STARTING problem.

     
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