Moderator getting involved in post's content.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by theamber, Jul 20, 2008.

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  1. theamber

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
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    Hi, recently one of my post has been erased from this forum. The thing was that I was trying to give a solution to someone for a power supply. Well one moderator did have something to add and said that my solution was not good for the OP realization. But actually he did not add a solution just said my post was not good. Well I replied to him unless you have a better solution for the OP's question then I will suggest you to "stop wasting bytes" by just judging other's posts without adding a better solution.
    The thing is this, if a moderator is getting involved on the contents of other users' posts he is implaying that he is going to be fully responsable for all the posts. Imagine that in the case monetary damages of expensive equipment or physical injury happens as a direct reaccion or consequence of someone posts.
    Moderators should not get involved unless the post is offensive, lewd or against the law to the general comunity not to him in particular which my wasn't anyways.
    I even think is unlawful to control content because this forum is a semi- public place. Certainly he could make a comment about the inapropiateness of my post but he could not delete it or modify it. A moderator could certainly warn an user or calcel his account if the posts are offensive or illegal but not deleting posts on his likings. In case of a lawsuit one of the strategies of Plaintifs is finding People responsable for the damages and the more responsables the better it is. By the actions of this moderator one would expect a moderator to act all the time in case something bad could of have been prevented.

    It is a very delicate thing if a moderator start controlling any content then users may find him responsable if something bad happens because of the forum's posts consequences.
    The user agreement will not mean a thing if it is considered to be an unlawful or a double edged agreement in court.
    I want to know what this community think about moderators deleting or modifying other's posts if they are not offensive nor illegal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  2. cumesoftware

    Senior Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    1,330
    10
    Indeed, I think it is a very unprofessional attitude from the particular moderator. Never came across a situation like this one in AAC, and I'm quite surprised.
     
  3. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
    5,699
    907
    I think the moderators do a superb job on this forum keeping the dialog civil, even for hotly debated topics. If it was the "stop wasting bytes" comment that was removed, that action would be in line with civility. Certainly, it added nothing to the content.

    John
     
  4. theamber

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
    318
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    I don't think you got the message what I intent to say is that actions like this could develop to something mayor. About my posting I do not care it was not that important and is not the essence of this post. Internet laws are fairly new and many people don't know them and could come back and hunt them.
     
  5. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    145
    I think it is appropriate that I make some comments with regards to this incident and the what has been raised in the OP.

    Having looked at the moderated post and the context within which it was moderated, I fully agree with the action taken by the said moderator. Can I bring to your attention the second part of item 7 in the forum rules:

    In this case, the moderator removed a post that was not contributing constructively to the discussion. From what I am led to believe the matter was dealt with amicably between yourself and the said moderator over PM.

    If you have a complaint against a moderator for any such actions they take on the forum, then please contact me via PM or e-mail and I will take both sides of the matter and take appropriate actions.

    As far as I am concerned, for this particular issue, the matter is closed.

    I would like to make a point quite clear here and I choose my words carefully: whilst this forum is publicly viewable and anyone is able to join the community and contribute free or charge and within the freedoms outlined in the forum rules, this forum is not a democracy it is privately owned and as such the site administration can do whatever it so wishes provided it complies with the law - therein we have the right to edit posts, or control any aspect of the site, in anyway we see fit without question and we make this very clear in the forum rules - that is our right as the private owners of this site. The forum rules, which detail the expectations of all members of the AAC community, are freely available to all and apply equally to every single member, including the admin and moderators - if you do not agree with our rules then you have the freedom not to contribute here.

    The disclaimer in the forum rules also make it very clear about liabilities:

    Everytime you post here at AAC or use the facilities of this site you agree to this disclaimer. Members are responsible for their own posts - no posts are pre-moderated - and those that use the information at this site are free to question this information, however ultimately they use the information at their own risk. This forum relies on its ability to openly discuss the topics at hand and freely provide information, however everything is provided as-is with no guarantees. Furthermore, we make it clear at the bottom of each webpage that user-posted content, unless source quoted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Public Domain License. The e-book disclaimer is also accessible from every page in the e-book (ref. http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/l_disclaimer.html).

    We constantly review the rules and disclaimers and make appropriate changes in accordance with appropriate legal guidelines.

    Dave
     
  6. PackratKing

    Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
    850
    215
    I'm not complaining.....I also had an [ admittedly non-sequitir ] post deleted, and was somewhat relieved to see it go...........which leads me to ask, why we don't have a means of deleting our own non-productive posts, unless I need to put on my glasses "cuz I haven't seen it yet.............OK I found that entire posts can be deleted, for a certain amount of time, it seems..................shall go try another...............

    Some can be nixed, some not.............Moderators / Admin .......please let me know where the line is drawn on personal deletion.

    On the question of liability, personal and otherwise, I take all I read here under advisement, so to speak, and expressly try my level best not to post anything I feel will be counterproductive, or dangerous to any other member.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  7. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    145
    We employ a policy where you are free to edit/delete your posts indefinitely. In the lower right-hand corner of each of your posts you will see an Edit button - when you press that you are presented with an Edit box with the text of your post - one of the options along the bottom of the box is Delete.

    Dave
     
  8. PackratKing

    Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
    850
    215
    Yes, but it does seem that on some posts, if I access the edit block, the delete box is no longer an option...............what gives ?
     
  9. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    145
    We leave this to the individual member. We do encourage members not to remove information that is pertinent to a discussion as it can destroy the flow. However, the issues of editing freedom is one that can sometimes create a whole myriad of issues.

    And we feel the forum rules and disclaimer make it clear that that is how this site believes members here should use information at this site. Bad advice, which almost always is not malicious, is often weeded out due to the public nature of the forums.

    Dave
     
  10. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    145
    Let me check the settings.

    Dave
     
  11. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    145
    It is not time limited, so you should be able to delete indefinitely. I'm away for a couple of days, so I will have a look when I get back.

    In the meantime, in the interests of not derailing this thread, I will copy these posts regarding editing of posts over to a new thread in the F&S forum. Please continue discussion on the edit/delete time limit settings in the following thread: http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=13122

    Thanks.

    Dave
     
  12. HarveyH42

    Active Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    425
    5
    Why complain about a single post getting deleted? I could understand getting upset, if most every time you posted, regardless of content, it gets deleted. This a great site, the moderation isn't bad, they do an excellent job of keeping it clean, and reasonably peaceful. The topics that are intended as debates, aren't shut down or deleted when they get a little heated, just when they start getting offensive. All posts can be found in a Google search, so it's reasonable to set some limits on that.

    This matter really isn't appropriate for a public outcrying, one post isn't really enough reason to complain over the entire internet (via the search engines, Google...). It does more to damage this site's public image, then any damage you may personally feel in your loss of a single post.

    It's a good site, good people, excellent resources, and growing. Don't sweat the small stuff, we are lucky someone goes to the expense of providing all of this, and asking so little in return. Just trust in their judgment, it's usually right on. If you feel they did wrong, deal with it privately. They care enough to keep this site up, they'll listen, and resolve the problem.
     
  13. theamber

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
    318
    0
    I do agree this forum is great and the moderation here is good and needed but Moderators should add or clarify content not modify it. For two reasons one because it will help others and the person making the comment to see that it was wrong another to be unlawful and the action could backfire.
    The reason of this post is not to complain about the detetion of my post as I said earlier. The reason of this post is to get some of the public opinion on this matter and to help the moderators act accordingly that is all.
    With respect to this being a privately owned forum it is one thing many do not understand but when public is involved as is here, then this forum must comply with "public policy". This term is very hard to understand even for very experienced lawyers and Judges. Public policy means what the public expect and what the public must have under the laws. These two terms get very complicated indeed.
    As an example eBay is a privately owned company and they never get involved in deleting or modifying people publicly made posts in their feedback forum.
    They know better, eBay is the company most sued on the Internet.
    Actually I sued eBay twice in Federal and in Superior California State court (not small claim stuff) over two years of litigation for another myriads of issues which I felt they were wrongdoing. They changed several sections of their policies because of me. Actually on one of the many arguments made I was arguing that eBay should delete the posts made negative about other users when eBay actually found out that those posts were false and damaging to others users’ reputation. At what eBay attorneys responded that eBay does not get involved on people posts because of the backfire that could cause them. People would of expect them to regulate all the posts if they did regulate one. At the end what was agreed in court was that eBay was a platform and should not get involved in personal disputes and should not police nor limit the freedom of expression and opinions of others. The Internet is a world wide community and should be let at that to act freely upon it but respecting the laws. If any one is interested I can look at my paper work and send him the case numbers and the exact words that were exposed by he courts.
    As on any medium offensive or illegal comments must be edited accordingly to the Law but the other comments should be let alone.
    As I said I hope this serves the moderators of this forum to be more careful about the deletions of others posts not because of my personal experience but for others that may develop in the future.
    About the other comment made that this post is not considered appropriate to be brought publicly. I think that is really WRONG this is the off topics section and I want to bring this post which is not insulting anyone nor is unlawful in any manner. I hope this post is actually going to help moderators understand their role better.
    As said I have nothing against ANY moderators on this forum and I actually did apologize for my words to the moderator that deleted them.
    One last note about user agreements involving the public. Agreements are bilateral mechanisms as such should contain equal amount of obligations for both parties not just being one sided as most of them are.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  14. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    I run a BBS (archaic I know). I provide the phone line, the computer, and the software. I allow the public to use it, but I OWN it. At my discretion I can block, modify, or do whatever else I please, except slander.

    This site is similar, and if someone violates the rules then the violation will be addressed. It is among the most open sites I have ever seen. Mods are here to prevent lawsuits, and the spread of false information. Being free, users have the right to take it or leave it, the internet is big enough for all. If you don't like the job they do you have a choice whether to stay or go. They aren't being paid for it, no one is as far as I know, and by the way, have you noticed the lack of advertising here, anywhere? No money is being made by the site either, unlike eBay, a purely commercial operation.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  15. HarveyH42

    Active Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    425
    5
    This site is nothing like Ebay, there is no money being collected here. If Ebay were to remove or modify negative feedback to protect the sellers, the ones that are providing their profits, it would leave the buyers clueless on whether a seller can be trusted.

    AAC is a free service, for which the users agreed with the owners term by registering. How they manage the content, does not in anyway damage the users. Personally, I find this thread disturbing, and a little threatening.
     
  16. theamber

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
    318
    0
    Bill by you allowing public to use your BBS you must comply with Public Policy. The public has a lot of rights even in your 100% privately owned BBS. The BBS site will not be what it is if it was not for the public there. You are using the public for your personal satisfaction. They are the most important part, without them your BBS will not be a Bulletin Board.
    Users are free to leave it if they do not like your BBS but if you have violated someone's rights that person is in his right to seek redress for aggrieves.
    People often confuse public places or semi-public places with their homes. There are many differences under the law for both.
    Another thing people don't understand about agreements is that if the agreement is found to have unlawfull terms it will be VOID under the Law. Unlawful agreements are void, certainly an agreement violating public policy is unlawful. Just because you agree to it does not necesarily mean you have to abide by it. For instance if you did not know at the time of the agreement that it was unlawful or under another circumstances even if you know it was unlawful and you agree you are violating the law too. For example if I made an agreement with someone to kill him and he sign it does that give me the right to kill him? (Dr. kaborkian comes to mind)
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  17. HarveyH42

    Active Member

    Jul 22, 2007
    425
    5
    This site is nothing like Ebay, there is no money being collected here. If Ebay were to remove or modify negative feedback to protect the sellers, the ones that are providing their profits, it would leave the buyers clueless on whether a seller can be trusted.

    AAC is a free service, for which the users agreed with the owners term by registering. How they manage the content, does not in anyway damage the users. Personally, I find this thread disturbing, and a little threatening.
     
  18. theamber

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
    318
    0
    HarveyH42 you don't get it. eBay is not going to do it to protect anyone neither sellers nor buyers, eBay makes money from both.
    What it was said in that Court was that if eBay KNOWS of a particular comment form buyers or sellers to be FALSE it should be removed by eBay which is the only one who can do it. It was established that eBay did not want to modify any content made by the public because of eBay's careful approach to users rights. Besides problems resulting from acting not equally with all their members. They did preffer not to get involved which I think is right.
    There is no need to repeat the same thing on all your posts, bytes cost money.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  19. Distort10n

    Active Member

    Dec 25, 2006
    429
    1
    I think this can be summed up quite nicely as both sides of the issue are correct.
    Users sign up under the pretense that they read the forum policy (yeah right) which often includes some text that says the owners of the forum/BBS can moderate content as they see fit. If users don't like the playground rules then leave.
    On the other hand , if moderators and owners abuse their powers and delete, lock, or otherwise bully members over opinions that they personally find unsavory then they drive away membership only to leave the forum defunct.
    The solution? It's the Internet. Arguing on it is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded. :cool:
     
  20. thingmaker3

    Retired Moderator

    May 16, 2005
    5,072
    6
    Theamber:

    I am having some difficulty following your reasoning. Perhaps you would be kind enough to clarify: Are you saying e-Bay's forum should actively moderate and that AAC should not?
     
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