mass producing again?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Mathematics!, May 24, 2012.

  1. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    I know we talked about this at alot already but I was still curious.

    1) If there is any part of mass producing a customer product that requires alot of people? If so what types of products

    2) Also what is the average amount of people it takes to manufacture a mass producing product (i.e make a product for the general public)
    is it around 10 , 20 , 100 , 200 , 1000 ,...on the order of how many.
    I know lego's only needs 2 in some places but I would think that is the major exception... Since what are all people doing for job's then in the manufacturing department

    3) I know of a wood maker that is extremely good in making custom made furniture like tables , desks ,...etc he makes all his stuff from wood.
    But you cann't find it anywhere except thru him... does everything by hand.... I know he cann't support more then a few customers a week so obviously he cann't mass produce him self. So I am kind of wondering how many guys/ manufacturing people are like him in that they do everything by themselfs and are able to support them selfs on a small amount of customer base. Without getting put out of business by manufactures/mass producer type machines / business.

    4) how many people are self employed manufactures or designers or in general work for themselfs ? And how are the majority doing this and succeeding seems to me the business are controlling mostly everything interms of the way things are done ... and its really almost impossible to work for yourself / by your self in these day and ages. But correct me if I am wrong.
     
  2. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
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    [QUOTE2) Also what is the average amount of people it takes to manufacture a mass producing product (i.e make a product for the general public)
    is it around 10 , 20 , 100 , 200 , 1000 ,...on the order of how many.
    ][/QUOTE]


    You don't want to be one of the masses, you want to be the one that makes it possible for the masses to work.
    That's where the challange, and the money is!!
     
  3. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    something like a project manager that does nothing but keeps the herd of people inline :)

    Though really I was curious what all the people are doing in manufacturing if not fixing machines to produce the products?

    Is there people actually standing around by conveyor belts actually screwing on microwave oven doors , putting parts of chairs together , screwing parts of enginees together or other easy repetition learned behaviors.
    Or is that basically dead from mass producing machines.... just still cann't get my head around what other people are doing for work...
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  4. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    Best part about education: Producing nothing sellable and getting paid more than the people that make the product!
     
    strantor likes this.
  5. gerty

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    Aug 30, 2007
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    [QUOTEsomething like a project manager that does nothing ][/QUOTE]

    Project managers are everywhere, good technical people are more desirable.
     
  6. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    And what happens if you are a project manager that knows all the technology then what for pay? :p
     
  7. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    I've never had a boss (manager) that knew how to do my job. The first time I realized this, I was disappointed that I couldn't go to the boss for help with the circuits. Good electronics people work where few others can even understand what they are doing.
     
  8. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
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    Gerty, is the quote button not agreeing wit you tonight?

    Mathematics!, In my plant, there is a little less than one person per machine. maybe one person per 1.5 machines. For the most part, their job entails setting up the machines, loading them with product, starting the process, then sit back and text people for the remaining hours of the shift. There's a guy who works on the floor right outside my office who has been watching cables go through the same hole for 35 years, and that doesn't bother him. He watches extraterrestrial conspiracy videos on youtube for most of his shift.

    If you are really interested in this stuff, check out Dirty Jobs; Mike Rowe goes into a lot of these places, and also How It's Made, a good portion of that show is shot in production plants.
     
  9. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ok but how many machines do you have ?

    So I can get a total of the employees working on machines.

    Also what other jobs/employment positions do they have other then working on machines... I want to see the percentage breakdown of who is doing what there if you don't mind
     
  10. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    For example another thing mass produced is computers does there exist machines that assembly a computer or is this still human intervention to install the mobo , cpu ,fans , HDD ,...etc I know dell use to build the computers / at least but them together from parts...

    Though I would think all this could be machine automatized...
     
  11. strantor

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    Oct 3, 2010
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    Ok,
    production department:
    5 armor machines (length of 1/2 football field) - 5 operators
    7 extruder lines - 4 operators
    15 respooler machines - 5 operators
    9 cabling machines - 4 operators
    3 buncher machines - 1 operator
    2 prestresser machines - 1 operator
    1 foreman

    Management (goes all the way to the top, but I'll list the people who work in the building and I see daily):
    1 production manager (management degree & electrical eng degree)
    1 guy with ambiguous job description who follows production manager around
    5 Manufacturing engineers who keep their purpose well hidden
    1 HSE guy
    2 office ladies (purchasing)

    Shipping & recieving:
    3 employees

    Cables engineering dept:
    1 lead thermoplastics engineer, egotistical, very intelligent
    3 thermoplastics engineers

    Maintenance department:
    1 maint manager (previously electrician)
    1 guy (previously mechanic) underneath manager who's title is not manager, yet does not have to touch wrenches.
    1 welder who does not weld, but manages parts database. 3rd in command of maint.
    1 old crabby machinist
    1 electrician
    1 mechanic
    2 electrical technicians (myself and one other guy)

    Calibration:
    2 employees

    Testing & QA
    1 engineer
    4 technican/operators (operate product torture machines)

    ...and that's all I can think of ATM. there are probably more.

    This plant is is only a very small portion of a huge company that makes a whole array of stuff, and there are tens of thousands of employees all over the world. Our building is attached to another building that's just as big, but full of nothing but offices full of office people. I have no idea what they do, but supposedly they all have something to do with the cables that we make. These office dwellers outnumber us production types probably 10 to 1, and I have no idea what their purpose is. I've never seen them out on the floor so I don't see how they could possibly know anything about the cables or how they're made. maybe they're salesmen? I don't know, but I can't see how their numbers (of people) are justified.
     
  12. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Ok , I see how it is do you make alot of different things or just cable based things.

    And I guess those office people are just sales and marketing , research and developing , financing/accounting ,...etc etc

    I would think the only really truely save bunch is R and D people in those bunch...
    since acounting/finiancing can be mostly automatized eventually with computers , sales and marketing if a product is good it sells itself with minor advertising ,...etc etc

    The only true guys you really need is the r and d , manufacturing guys and maybe a few project managers , marketers ,...etc

    But eventually most office staff can be but out of business like the asm worker lines to...

    So some day your total company and many others could be full operational with limited staff of about a couple dozen or even less...

    Scary to think what all the other people are going to do....
    Everybody wants the money but only a few people will have it if this occurs since not many people will have jobs...

    But then of course thats when a war / chaos will start and the majority rules kind of stuff...

    Sorry getting of on a tangent
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  13. strantor

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    Oct 3, 2010
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    I think about this all the time. I don't know how it will pan out. As we move closer and closer to the unobtainable point where every single job is done by a machine/computer and every single person is unemployed, I think there will naturally come a point sometime before that, where there are not enough employed people to buy the stuff that the employed people are making. That's not good for business, so I guess what would be good for business is for companies to keep a few humans around and pay them. Another thought is that if unemployment keeps going up, and human jobs keep being filled by machines, then human labor will be less and less in demand. If there's 100 people vying for one job versus 3 people, then out of that 100 you're much more likely to find someone desperate enough to work for half price. Once you get enough people working for half price, half price becomes the new price, and anybody making more than the new price becomes the new target for the next wave of layoffs. So a gradual (or not so gradual) lowering of wages across the board. But then people making less, less people buying goods, less profit for companies, not good for business. So we're back to square 1 and maybe it's in the companies' best interest to keep a few humans around and pay them competitive wages...
    :confused::confused::confused:
     
  14. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    Maybe we can all sell information to each other and get rich betting on Wall Street stocks :D
     
  15. gerty

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 30, 2007
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  16. shortbus

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    It all depends on WHAT is being mas produced. Stuff like populating electronics boards and making components can be done by machines and robots. Assembling those components into a finished product not so much. Sure they have machines that put or hold stuff in place but, it still takes a human to finesse and fit the product together.

    Like was said before watch all the episodes of shows like Ultimate Factories, How Do They Do it, How its made. The day of a machine making a FINAL product will never come or is so far off that it is nothing to worry about.

    Even your accounting scenario, it still takes a office full of people to enter the data.

    Its been asked before but, Mathematics! just what is your age and back round???
     
  17. maxpower097

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2009
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    It all depends on the job. In PCB making sometimes we would need people to work the line and make fixes to the boards manually after they were finished. Sometimes we didn't need em. It really depends on the job. Theres a show you can d/l or see on TV called How its Made. YOU NEED TO WATCH THIS SHOW. It will answer all your questions about how things get manufactured. It takes it from nothing to a finished product step by step with high speed slo mo camera's on the machines so you can see even how the robots work. Really watch this show.It might even be on hulu.
     
  18. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
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    Thats actually not a bad idea ... plus they have some forms of that already in IT. called idea banks/farms or knowledge management stuff

    Sure but why just stop at PCB board stuff in theory one could create asm machines to be more flexible and precise to do the whole process some day putting companies that asm the computers like dell down to a couple employees to run the machine/fix the machines that build the computer machines :)
    Weather it is going to take a while to do the point is it can be done, specially with computer vision being more perfected.

    Which leads me back to the economic problem regardless of who has the more possession of money it is usually the majority rules in society.
    For example at some point when only a few people can eat or afford stuff to live... the majority will just kick the **** out of the minority / chaos will arise. And some new compromise would have to be meet equivalent to independence day in a sense. ( so history repeats itself but it is not the fact that people don't understand the problems the problem is that there is no way to truely solve economics in general anyway every.... It is a slow dieing subject/theory that initial just slows down the chaos of what the world will come to probably some day the money system will only temporarily work with the population increasing / job decreasing )

    We say we are truely free but work controls us to some extent.
    No ruling can ever be truely fair since it is based on opinon.
    Like it or not believe and opinon is the underlining thing that makes people weak in a sense as well as boring or exciting :) .

    The economical point is the money system / economic ,...etc will always fail eventually not because over population so much (though could be a factor in future) , not because resource starvation ( doing the math out you will see we have enough energy to last use until the earth dies itself ) , not health ( though it could some day be a factor like a black plague but in general medical research / improvements in medical treatments will keep getting better), but it is in the sure fact of comfort level being reached , human beliefs / conflicts , business control of how things are done or suppose to be done , personal issues , ...etc

    Most of these things cann't every be truely solved and are known to be impossible to solve... So economics/politics just tries to minimize conflict / damage control in society. In theory it could happen where we get to a situation that has no solution with added fact that if not solved or found a damage control mechanism to at least save society from chaos...
    One less conflict in this category is money / barter system this will eventually cause chaos.... I for see
    because people will get content at living at a certain live style so they won't need to buy much more then food and utilities/shelter/car and human employment won't be needed as much and population growth...
    I mean how do you ever clear up those issues without seriously restricting freedom :)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  19. maxpower097

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2009
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    If we had enough people and money we could. Thats what the 1%ers do. They have enough pull on the market to actually make the numbers change just by buying and selling stock. So if they want to make money they can do it just by shifting money around making the market fluxuate.
     
  20. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
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    Undercover boss show how c.e.o. are being created,they are filming in DeBe's

    country.Do we have under cover bosses in Norway and the north countries.

    That program shows you ,to quit using the companies you see. No under

    cover boss on Internet,so lets have under cover help,like fixing Destroms

    car. I think he got a lot of help from systoms he gave. The U.K. is being

    taken over also,the little mobile home camp grounds owned by International

    country,camp on the bank of the river with T06 he will look after you.
     
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