map sensor adjust for use with hydroxy gas

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by gary74, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    i have downloaded a circuit and tried to build it several times but i cannot get it to work. I have spent a lot of money(to me a couple of hundred dollars is a lot) trying to get this thing right and working. I have read and studied the LM3914 comparator chip and read forums on here about it. I looked at several different schematics on it and none of them seem to use a resistance between pins 6 and 7.
    My greatest voltage output is described on here as pin number ten and each lower pin is 50 milivolts separated. If anyone has that sharp mind and can take a look see at this problem I would sure be overwhelmed and thankful.

    Note - link to commercial website removed by moderator

    this contains two different circuits that I have built and neither work. I followed step by step testing procedures and adjusting. I think that there is a misprint or misque in the drawing. please help.

    if youa re interested in the hydroxy systems my brother and i have read and collected a lot of information on them over the last 6 months and are nearing the installation phase.. we have made \hydrogen and seem to have an idea of the potential here.. email me at gary74@northstate.net and i will be glad to tell you what we have learjned together... thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2008
  2. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    No surprise there. No one has or will get it to "work" as advertised.

    Save your money and go to school.

    John
     
  3. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    john.. i am a bit old to return to class and ahndicapped to a degree.. but i did take a lot of electronics some years ago and now having forgotten more than i recall i do know that this circuit can be develoed ... the input of .5 volts and an otput that is selectable at 50 mvolt increments should not be so difficult... its the total idea that is a bit evasive... the use of hydrogens not compressed has already been done, we have (my brother and myself ) discovered that with just a few modifications actually make a very compelling amount of hydrogen.. the problem is that my recollection of all the stuff i need is a bit lost. I just want to develope this thing enough to use. I have really read more in the last month on the circuitry than I recall even studying.. I have a time with the LM3914 because i am not sure how to bias the way it works. I have looked and read and looked and read.. but the strange thing is that i cannot quite grasp it all.. that is why I came on here.
     
  4. kubeek

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 20, 2005
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    What should the circuit do and what does it do?
     
  5. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    The LM3914 seems to be a display driver.

    As mentioned, what do you want it to do? Please post your schematic and maybe we can help.

    John
     
  6. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    The energy required to dissociate H20 into H2 and 02 is fixed. It does not respond to magical frequencies or being snuck up on in small voltage increments. Despite all the positive testimonials, the device cannot work as stated. You will note the complete absence of any hard data or reproducible testing methodologies.

    By the way, I took out the website link to the commercial site. We do not permit advertising links.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2008
  7. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    this circuit takes the inut of 0v to 1v and operates the map sensor of an automobiles carbueration. The lower the voltage the more oxegen is being read by the system and the more gass is injected into the cylander. the blance point of adding or leaving the gas mixture the same is between .5 volts and any drop .05 less. The idea of the sensor adjust is to manipulate the balance point to a lower value. So if the snesor reads more oxygen from the hydroxy mixture it will not add more gas. It is adjustable at 50milivolt increments so that more or less hydrogen oxygen being introduced can be adjusted to the right mixture point...page 8 of this llink has the first of two slightly different circuits. The problem is that is does not work.(painful laugh) here is the link again.


    once again, link to commercial website removed
    .

    it gives a complete descrition as well but you can view the circuit unless i can figure a way to get it straight here. I will look at tahat possibility after i send you this.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2008
  8. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    One additional note - messing with the ECU inputs will void your engine warranty to death. Not a smart thing to do at all.

    To gary74 - do not place those link to the commercial website in your messages. We do not permit that.
     
  9. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    Beenthere.... I am not trying to separate the gasses...
     
  10. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    I am sorry.. i did not realize that I did.. i can make a copy of the circuit or the entire description without their name and sned that.. ???.. i thought I read that the pdf was what was needed by sticky.. sorry...i am a bit baffled why they would post a circuit you cannot make work anyway... I surely am not trying to advertise for them
     
  11. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    The whole topic is a bit baffling. A bit of investigating is all you need to prove it's hogwash.

    Working back from the link to the pdf gets to the commercial site. If you want to download the pdf & post it up, that's fine. But we do not permit links to commercial sites.

    As to non-working circuits, I have seen a number in print and in peer-reviewed journals. I have even been able to make a couple of them work. It's an 'end justifies the means' situation. In the cases I cite, the authors wanted to get published. In the case of hydroxy gas, the purveyor wants his little profit.
     
  12. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    ok. how do I post an attachment.. gosh my age is showing.. sheesh
     
  13. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    my brother and i have this thing actually working on a deisel generator. he has water jets that cut all mannor of things that is powered by a diesel generator 465 volt 3 phase 150hp. we have gotten somewhere around a 40 percent increase on this motor .. just with the hydrogen oxygen gas.. we are also using hydroliv fluid and diesel mix of about 50 50 and have found that alternatives although exploited are like legends and that some amount of truth are in them... this ma snesor deal tells us of a problem that has not arisen yet becuase we ahve not put this system on a car with a sensor.. i have and so has he read and read all kinds of stuff on how they operate and the com0uter .. we even thought of changing the eprom and rerogramming but that is just not the answer to what we are doing.. but i still know that hopes dashed and dashed are part of the invention process.. i just have to get this thing working if i have to go back to school .. i am on two prostetic and money of co7urse is not like a river... but other than that.. i know someone can help me with this part of the whole process
    i hope also to make a hydrogen pulse furnace.. on the lines of the lenox pulse furnace excet that i want to make the hydrogen supply unoressurized excet at the oint of injection all made by the process of hydroloxix and then use the exhause to turn an air induction motor for the blower system... all dreams.. but hey... that is what our minds are for. I worked as a repair and instalation man on air for about 15 years. i had my electrical license and then studied electronics .. its just been since 1989 that i was in school.. don't use it you lose it ya know... thanks anyway for your help... sorry about the violation
     
  14. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    Gary,
    Can you somehow post the circuit directly on here, with the theory of operation, without linking to the site where you got it, and any references to the site removed?

    LM3914 circuits really aren't terribly difficult. They are a bit fiddly to get the balance between the Vref and the LED current set properly though.

    In order to get to the attachments page, click the "Go Advanced" button under the text box. On the next page that comes up, click the "Manage Attachments" button under the text box.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2008
  15. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    ok this is the circuit. The snesor input is .5 volts... the output adjusted by the trim pot vr2 is 1 volt. it is supposed to turn on and off opposite the led and cause the computer to sense high or low at adjusted variable levels. i am trying to play a bit with this lm3914 but i cannot make sense of the information.. I need to know what sets the parameters for cutting on and off the first pin at a .5 input and what sets the i of led currents so that i can set the pin number 10 to the highest output and the pin one to the lowest output.. i have searched for a tutorial on the ic but there are not so many dumb peiple as myself needing it i don't suppose...lol thanks
     
  16. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    I'll have to look at this tomorrow; it's very late now.
     
  17. thingmaker3

    Retired Moderator

    May 16, 2005
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    I too am baffled, but we see this a lot. Non-workable schematics for everything from timers to radios to distance meters are splattered across the web.

    My first look at the circuit leaves me with the impression of the fuel injection rate oscillating. I'll have a second, more thorough look this evening.
     
  18. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    OK, early-type O2 sensors: Those sensors simply detected the presence or absence of O2 in the exhaust. If there was O2, the mixture was too lean, absence of O2 meant the mixture was too rich. The signal varied between nearly 0v and nearly 1v; it never stayed at the in-between levels. So, the older ECUs would see the "too rich" response from the O2 sensor, and slowly lean the mixture until the O2 sensor reported "too lean", and the ECU would slowly increase the mixture. The cycle would repeat as long as the engine was running. The goal was stochiometric operation, or about 14.7:1 ratio.

    Newer O2 sensors have a continuously variable output. I don't recall the exact ranges offhand, but I think it's somewhere between 0.4v and 3.4v. The fuel/air ratio corresponds to the voltage reading from the O2 sensor. In order to adjust the input to the ECU, you would need to add an offset voltage to the O2 sensor's output.

    It's not quite that simple though; the newer systems have multiple O2 sensors; one before the catalytic converter and one after. Dual exhaust systems have four sensors. They would all need some kind of offset.

    This circuit is not appropriate for either the old-style nor the new-style O2 sensors. Your ECU would likely have a conniption fit when fed such nonsense.
     
  19. gary74

    Thread Starter Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    i have the old style sensor.. 4 wire with the .5v being the .. 14:1 ratio.. by adding the hydroxy mixture the oxygen level is reported higher and the computer adjusts for a reicher mixture.. i really want to get this thing working and figure whether or not it will actually help.. you are right the newer sensors both report a lower oxygen level and is compensated in the computer but also actually have a slightly leaner mixture... Can you help me with some basic informatio about the lm3914. I need to know what pins sets what in my language. i want to know what sets the minimum and maximum limits of the input voltage.. mine is between 0 and .9 volts to give the output from pin 1 to 10. I want my pin number 10 to be "on" at exactly .5volts and to go off at .49 volts... the output is basically a 15 miliamp at 1.7 volt on pin 10 and 50 milivolts less on each lower pin when all are on?
     
  20. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    I'm afraid you're still not quite understanding it.
    The old style O2 sensors don't sit at 0.5v; they are either nearly 0V or nearly 1V. It's a "yes, their is oxygen" or "no, there is no oxygen" proposition for them. They cycle on and off between the two.

    However to directly answer your question, pin 4 of the LM3914 is the low side of the internal voltage divider network, and pin 6 is the high side of that same voltage divider network. Pin 6 must be at least 1.5v less than the IC's supply voltage (pin 3). Pin 4 may be between 200mV (0.2V) less than pin 6, down to -V (pin 2's voltage). Currently, pin 4 is connected to ground.
     
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