So you all believe that this is something that will NEVER happen? I think it is just a matter of time. I mean on a hardware point of view we will one day be able to build things with single atoms (nanotechnology) so we can definately reproduce the physical sizes of the brain. We could build cells. Even cells smaller than our cells Theoretically. We would just have to understand more about how the body and mind work on a nano level. And as we learn we evolve. We get smarter and smarter. Look at the past 110 years all of the things that have come out. So apparently our minds are evolving.

It is very hard for me to believe that we will ever reach en ending point. And our emotions are just chemical reactions in our brains. Atoms interacting with each other to make us feel like we are feeling. If that makes any sense. It's hard for me to word what I am trying to say.

And for software you are saying that it only has certain commands and rules machines have to follow so how can it ever replicate the brain? Well our brains do to have to obey rules (of the universe) and only certain basic things that could possibly happen on a nano level. It is the complexity of billion billion trillions of the commands/atoms/molecules/electrons etc. interacting with each other to give us what we think, imagine, and feel.

Nature built the human and the mind out of atoms (It took millions of years, but it WAS done). I see no reason why we can't build something like it or even better out of the same material (atoms). It is just a matter of knowing how to arrange these atoms IMO and that is just a matter of time.

I like this discussion. The further we go into it though the closer we get to a religious/spiritual perspective, which is fine with me. Basically is the human mind more than just matter?

Are there things that we can never understand or explain mathematically? By saying this that would mean that there IS an ending point to our intelligence.

As a baby we are brought into this world knowing nothing. We have to be taught (programmed) everything that we do. Except for feelings which you could say is preprogrammed by DNA. One long molecular chain has all the information needed for every cell in our bodies. Once again the further into the future we go the more we learn about it, But also the more we evolve. We are learning way faster than we are evolving though.

One could argue how do you build something that is smarter than you the creator? It would just be a matter of programming it to pick up on things as we do as a child. We see a cat. Mother tells us it is a Cat. From now own we know when we see a furry little animal of a certain shape that sounds like meow and feels a certain way we now that the sound cat is what relates these two. Mother just programmed us. It gets stored in our brains.

This is such a complex topic I love it. I hope we keep it going. Very interesting.

 

So you all believe that this is something that will NEVER happen? I think it is just a matter of time. I mean on a hardware point of view we will one day be able to build things with single atoms (nanotechnology) so we can definately reproduce the physical sizes of the brain.

It is one thing building a device on the atomic scale, it is a whole different scenario making it work as intended. I have stated recently, think of the issues semiconductor manufacturers are having as they go beyond 65nm down to 45nm technology - quantum effects are increasingly making the transistor behaviour inconsistent and therefore the designers are struggling to develop beyond these scales. So if they went down to say 25nm technology the transistors cease to be transistors - so what do they become?

Aside from the point that I do not believe that software can mimic human logical behaviour, but that is an aside from your above post.

Dave

 

Are there things that we can never understand or explain mathematically? By saying this that would mean that there IS an ending point to our intelligence.

Heisenberg may argue there is a limit to which we can accurate employ mathematics to understand something. Is that an end point to our intelligence?

Dave

 

It is one thing building a device on the atomic scale, it is a whole different scenario making it work as intended. I have stated recently, think of the issues semiconductor manufacturers are having as they go beyond 65nm down to 45nm technology - quantum effects are increasingly making the transistor behaviour inconsistent and therefore the designers are struggling to develop beyond these scales. So if they went down to say 25nm technology the transistors cease to be transistors - so what do they become?

Aside from the point that I do not believe that software can mimic human logical behaviour, but that is an aside from your above post.

Dave

Good Points.
You are right we are having troubles as we go smaller in the semiconductor industry. Considering an atom has a width of 0.1 nm and we are currently working with 45nm we are getting very close. They are already talking about 32nm, 22nm and 16nm technologys and expect 16nm by 2018. Of course this is talk but they will try until it is accomplished IMO. The smaller we go the more quantum physics comes into play, and yes we will probably reach an ending to this method. We will then have to know more about quantum mechanics to proceed any further. So really it might not be an ending then would it? Through research and development we might find new ways to manipulate/process and store data. We will not stop until we find a way to improve our current technologies and like I said before it's very hard for me to believe that we will not find any new ways to improve our technology. For instance cell technology. Making smaller transistors is not the only way to improve. Maybe AI will have nothing to do with electronics. Maybe it will be a mixture of electron and chemical action. I guess that would be more of a man made biological machine. Which would probably happen through genetic engineering. Either way it is still man made. So maybe we will rech our limits with the current ways of producing computers but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways.

As far as software, we can't mimic something we don't fully understand. But once again, we find new things out about the brain every day, and it seems reasonable to say that the brain has it's limits and the only way it can change is through evolution. So unless evolution is changing things about the brain faster then we are figuring them out then we will one day completely understand it. By that time we should have the technology through nanotechnology or genetic engineering to replicate and maybe even improve. Of course more extrapolation, but we are both predicting but really we don't know. It seems though you are doubting the capabilities/possibilities of the human mind.

This is a fun discussion none the less.

Heisenberg may argue there is a limit to which we can accurate employ mathematics to understand something. Is that an end point to our intelligence?

Dave

Intelligence in applying mathematics, yes.

You might be right. We may not ever create a machine that will be as smart or smarter than us, but you can't say it can't happen because you do not know what we will find studying the sciences in these crazy ideas. I'm not saying it's possible but I'm not saying it's impossible either. I do lean toward the possible though, because of our past improvements in technology and the idustrial revolution it is easy for me to extrapolate and say it is.

Thank you for your input.