Why did you use 2 parallel pairs of inverters

As I said when I posted the circuit,
"Gates are parallelled to increase current handling (but not really necessary)."

Edit: I haven't seen Beck's original circuit, but if it used a 100k pot in series with the probes I'm sure the probe capacitance would have resulted in the waveform at the probes being non-square.

 

Paralleling CMOS gates usually is done for increased current drive. The idea is that since CMOS is a constant curent source output, tiny differences in timing that might cause nanoseconds of cross-conduction do not generate large current spikes as they can with bipolar outputs. That is true, but the high-reliability folks still frown on the practice.

In the alternative medicine universe, squareness is important because it "generates" harmonics (their phrasing, not mine), getting you lotsa frequencies from a single fundamental. Why is this important? Depends on who you ask more than on any traditional research techniques and results.

ak

 

I like the 4017 for many things but I'm not sure how it would do at 1MHz. The output of the counter goes from source to sink, so it can provide an alternating polarity.

I know some elements could only source or sink current, but if someone could elaborate how exactly to get negative polarity from output of 4017 (or any other timer) I would appreciate it very much.
40106 uses inverters for this...

 

how exactly to get negative polarity from output of 4017 (or any other timer)

If all you want is a negative pulse you could perhaps drive a low-current load via a capacitor on the output. When the output drops to 0V the load will be driven negative with respect to 0V. Is that the sort of thing you mean? Otherwise, you would need a negative voltage supply and a level-shifter stage between the output and the load.

 

Sry for delay. For theoretical purpose:
1) would I be able to use 10 9V batteries and make more powerful E field with 40106 chip ? What is limit on circuit voltage ?
2) 40106 is inverter chip which here generates 100khz with Q1 and Q2. Would I be able to achieve same effect with high speed inverter op-amps like lm6172 (outputs connected to Q1 and Q2 )?

tks

 

1) 10 x 9V = 90V = significant hazard to user/patient. 40106 max supply voltage = 15V.
2) A high speed op-amp (I haven't checked the LM6172 spec) could be configured as a 100kHz oscillator but would consume more power than the 40106.

 

1) 10 x 9V = 90V = significant hazard to user/patient. 40106 max supply voltage = 15V.
2) A high speed op-amp (I haven't checked the LM6172 spec) could be configured as a 100kHz oscillator but would consume more power than the 40106.

1) I was targeting voltage issue with op-amp. Usually they have +-15V supply. Can op-amp be connected to Q1 and Q2 same way as 40106 to increase output voltage higher than +-15V ?
2) I would be most grateful if you could elaborate a bit connection between source/sink output and PNP/NPN transistors. Can all combinations be made ie. it does not matter whether source (op-amp) or sink output (comparator) is connected to base of PNP or NPN transistor ? Some1 mentioned comparator having sink output - that means it can be connected only to PNP transistor ? Thereby op-amp would only go to NPN transistor...?

I certainly tried The Internet Of Things and came to all sorts of Not So Clear explanation

 

1) If opamps are used instead of a CD40106 you wouldn't need Q1, Q2. The output voltage would be slightly less than +-15V if the opamp supply were +-15V.
2) An opamp output can sink or source current, whereas a comparator can generally only sink current. Either can drive a PNP or NPN base, but the comparator would normally require a pull-up resistor on its output (to provide a source current path).

 

This is all true for unidirectional electric fields with two electrodes (1 axis). What would be necessary changes for bi-directional field (4 electrodes, 2 axis), each pair switching one second on and off at 100khz frequency ?

Pulses to all 4 electrodes could be sent from 40106, but how to make each pair switch on/off for 1 second ?

 

You can make a 1Hz oscillator from a spare 40106 section and use it to gate the 100kHz oscillator like this:

 

Hmm, i still fail to see how U1x part will make 2 pairs of electrodes switch alternately at particular time interval.

40106 has 6 pairs of inverters. If we skip double current capacity part, 4 inverters can be used for 4 electrodes. U1x part will presumably make U1y switch on/off for 1 second (witch is 1 pair of electrodes at 100khz).
How to connect other pair of electrodes ? Sry for apparently being electrically "illiterate" ?

 

i still fail to see how U1x part will make 2 pairs of electrodes switch alternately at particular time interval

You didn't specify alternately. You merely said "each pair switching one second on and off at 100khz frequency". I'll think up a design for alternating between pairs if that's what you meant.

U1x part will presumably make U1y switch on/off for 1 second (witch is 1 pair of electrodes at 100khz)

Correct.

 

Here's the alternating pairs arrangement. Pair ab on for ~1sec while pair cd is off, and vice versa.

 

Tks a lot. I thought additional trigger will be used to "alternate" (U1d). Will see how it works.

This "gating" thing is new to me. I found excellent tutorial on everything regarding 40106 here
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/pay/BEC-2/Page49.html

Btw, so far there is reason to think this device works ...marvelously ! Together with some other medicine metastasis on liver... eliminated ! Metastasis on lungs...severely reduced ! It's to early to call it utter success though. And had to reduce voltage to 15v, causes much discomfort. It's just about fascinating no1 has so far researched effect of high pulsing E-field on biological cells.

Sir Alec T could just as well be making history here...

 

It's me again

Although you mentioned shock hazard warnings several times, i tried touching the electrodes, exactly hooking them like bob beck zapper, and can't feel any current although oscilloscope shows 120khz + 27V. I tried lowering base resistors to only 1k and collector resistors to only 100 Ohms and still can't feel a thing. LTspice shows 27mA if body resistance is 1k (wet fingers)...
When I hook up lm358 dual outputs to 1k resistor each, at 15V I feel quite a shock. If that was 30V I imagine heart seizure is quite probable. However 40106+transistor can't provide any power whatsoever but has obvious advantage of high khz range. What am I doing wrong ?
Power is quite sufficient (bought 20000 mAH mobile power deck and hooked up 5V output to booster module and works great with lm358)

In asc file, lower pair is oscillating 1st second.

 

If the voltage and frequency are at target levels, why do you care how it feels? Do you have some target for how it should feel?

 

ok there buddy, just being curious. Still researching influence of electric current on cell metabolism and functioning of cell membrane ion channels. I can definitely recommend book "Electricity and Magnetism in Biology and Medicine" by - Ferdinando Bersani. Bob beck certainly did ground breaking work with zapper, colloidal silver, and brain tuner or deep cortex stimulation. Almost by accident I recreated effect of his Brain tuner in that you feel almost immediately sleepy (and sleep like a baby afterwards) if apply 1000 hz current on neck and forehead for few min.

For those who are interested it is even possible to regrow human limbs using silver ions and low voltage current as Dr. Becker was doing -evidence included - (http://www.rexresearch.com/becker/becker1.htm).

100 khz zappper is different than test before with E-field which did not contact body. At this high frequency I imagine electric current may travel on skin only (Tesla cough...cough) therefore not feeling anything. Anyway other solution would be opamp lm6172 which I will try next...

 

I tried lowering base resistors to only 1k and collector resistors to only 100 Ohms and still can't feel a thing.

That doesn't change the output voltage significantly.

LTspice shows 27mA if body resistance is 1k (wet fingers)...

I doubt body resistance externally is that low, even in a bath! Subcutaneous resistance might be, but the current then could be hazardous .

 

Hi,

I was going to mention that there are a lot of op amps that go far above the LM358 but i see this thread is a little older now and maybe the CMOS version is just as good. CMOS rise time isnt bad really, so if it is a square wave then that should do pretty well.

 

That doesn't change the output voltage significantly.

No, but it limits the current

Ok done some testing. Basically at same voltage and frequency lm358/6172 op amps are much more powerful than 40106+transistor. If I touch electrodes on 40106 with wet fingers, current even stops at times indicating circuit instability.

Above 5000 hz, 15V no current is physically detectable on 40106. But as frequency drops current sensation increases dramatically to a point that if you just feel tiny something on 3000 hz it might kill you at few hz frequency !!! I tried!