Lift Problem

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by R!f@@, Nov 10, 2010.

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  1. R!f@@

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    [​IMG]

    See the pick.
    It's the error code of a lift that I attended today.
    It's a Mitsubishi. Single car, 3 ph 400V unit.
    Type CCP-GEL31
    Control VFEL (possibly means Variable frequency somethin somethin.):confused:.

    It's been in use since Jul 2004.
    The best thing in a typical Maldivian companies such as those install these kinda things are tht they disappear with in a year or they will disappear after installing couple of them. After that they got a huge sum of money it's time to start something new. They will tell the customer he will get warranty but alas, warranty will work if only the customer finds the guys who install them in the first place.

    It's been checked by couple of parties. The last party actually "said" or did something abt it. They said the "boards" are faulty and they have to order them from Singapore, charge is $ 2000.00 :eek:.
    It's been already on the way of "completing" the board from the factory.
    But they seem to be out of contact for while now. So as usual it has crossed the path of the inevitable.

    I asked the owner, what boards were they talking about replacing, since it has one CPU, VFD Drive Assy, a PSU and one hell of a Power stage behind the control board, with Big caps and A 3 phase inverter drive with Big Hybrid IGBT Modules. My mouth started to water when I saw the power stage, really donno why,I guess I have a thing for heavy duty power components :D.

    So I checked every thing a DMM could after of course going via the error code "06" table says "SSCOVH" , which, I have absolutely no idea about what so ever. It has a diagram indicating the wiring path and the error code table and some onboard switch setting details. No more detail is given on the area of fault, but the SSCOVH. I donno what it stands for.

    So , Once again here I am wondering if anybody is out there to throw some light over this problem.

    Is there anyone out there who can tell me what the error code stands for, so I can concentrate on a typical area.
    Oh by the way. PSU is OK, Voltages are labeled. No bulgy caps, no physical damage what so ever, so far as I can see.
     
  2. atferrari

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    Jan 6, 2004
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    Over voltage detection
     
  3. atferrari

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  4. R!f@@

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    Are u sure?
     
  5. R!f@@

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    Hey ..u just made my day

    .much thanks mate..

    Call me anytime if u need a favor :D
     
  6. atferrari

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    Hola Rifaa,

    That VFEL seems a more modern circuitry, design, topology that their old? VFD whatever.

    Lot of Rifaas seem to be asking for schematics.

    Buena suerte.
     
  7. R!f@@

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    Hola senyor ( is this correct ) :D

    Me asking for schema.....what are u talkin abt, u know u can find me here.

    Tell me which "Rifaa's" asking for schematics..Is someone impersonating me?
     
  8. Potato Pudding

    Well-Known Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    I don't know what the Power Systems are like in Maldives, but if it was connected to a weak grid and the elevator was heavily loaded; when it stopped (mostly with stopping a descent) the voltage would spike high.

    You might want to test for Overvoltage damage.

    If someone ordered replacement boards then after those arrive you can do some comparison testing of the unpowered boards. You might be able to get the current boards working again and either return the new boards or have the old boards for spares.

    Lifts have a serious liability factor. Make certain you don't accidentally disable any circuits. Make certain that previous installers and service contractors didn't bypass any of the safety circuits.

    The lift controls should have had a power protection layer of sensing and regulation. If there was a shutdown fault that it didn't automatically recover from, then I would wonder if the power protection was working or bypassed.

    I can imagine a service tech getting calls because power faults keep causing shutdowns needing a test and reset. In order to meet a customer demand that the lift stop shutting itself off, the supplier disables the power fault test. Problem ignored.
     
  9. R!f@@

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    So I need to collect previous repair info's ...this is gonna be fun.

    By the way, I was wondering...what over voltage, I mean which one...shouldn't a reset restart the elevator. If it is a spike, then it would be long gone. Or is it that voltage is over the nominal range, this is highly unlikely.
    I brought the controller supply board. It seems there is cap electrolytic leakage.

    Update

    [​IMG]

    This is a shot of the leak tht I thought was there.
    I have trick question to all of u.

    How can u tell cap is bad when ur capacitance meter shows the exact value rated on the cap.

    The board has no residue apart from what u see. And other caps are clean. Only that cap has some kinda stuff at the base. But the cap tests good.

    So what is it. How can one tell a good cap from a bad one in this situation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  10. eblc1388

    Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2008
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    In many countries, it is against the laws and regulations for any person to work on personnel lift(both mechanical and electrical) circuits without authorization or certification by the lift company and/or licensing authority.

    The lift control room door must be locked at all times to prevent curious people from access.

    Similar circumstances applies to fire protection circuitry too.
     
  11. R!f@@

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    hee heee hee ....Not here dude.
    Here what ever goes. and believe me when I say tht everyone is authorized. :D

    {ED}
    I just got off the phone with the building owner. And guess what chung, it's abt bold high light above.

    The guys who actually installed the lift scammed the company who sold the lift. It seems they did not pay the final payment. So the actual seller (overseas) does not want to even see the lift. Forget about authority, or law for tht matter. This is the best part of Maldives. Anything goes....kekekekekeke!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  12. Dwighthe

    New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    I'm not a repair tech but I have some experience with VFDs. Usually a drive will give an overvoltage fault when the voltage on the DC bus exceeds a certain level(about 410V on 230v system; 820V on a 460V system).

    If the overvoltage is caused by an overhauling load such as stopping the lift when it's going down then check the resistance brake circuit or the brake resistor for problems. If the drive trips on overvoltage when power is supplied to the drive or shortly thereafter look for voltage spikes on the input power side.
     
  13. R!f@@

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    I checked the DC bus, as I remember it was 600VDC
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2010
  14. atferrari

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    No señor. You need the letter Ñ / ñ. (They say that now you can register a domain including that letter) Never tried.

    Regarding those "Rifaas", I meant many people like you asking for schematics / codes.

    In line with some posts following mine, found some from technicians trying to get their qualification validated in Australia / New Zealand to be able to deal with elevators.

    Certainly not my line of knowledge or interest (I only know I need to press 7 to reach my apartment). :)

    Buena suerte.
     
  15. Dwighthe

    New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    The round object on top of the drive in the picture you posted looks like the dynamic braking resistor.


    What is the supply voltage and frequency?
     
  16. R!f@@

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    3 phase, 400V 50Hz. Checked tht and I can get 400 across the phases
     
  17. debe

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2010
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    Hi R!f@@, ESR meter is what i use to check Electrolytic caps in circuit hasnt failed me yet. This kit should be av from Dicksmith electronics in Australia for about $80 Aust. Wouldnt be without it. Daryl
     
  18. retched

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    Dec 5, 2009
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    That is my next addition. A decent ESR meter.

    I had access to a very old, very nice unit at a previous employer, but alas, no longer.

    That break resistor is a HUGE wirewound.

    Any signs of heat damage on it? Test continuity on it?

    That leaky cap HAS TO GO.

    I would also suspect the break resistor. If it failed and fused, the resistance would drop creating an overvoltage condition.
     
  19. R!f@@

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    Aaah! now tht's the kind of response I was hoping for, thanks Daryl.

    retched where the hell have u been?
    We need to talk.


    So the cap has to go..I was thinking of that too. But the cap shows good from my fluke, but I had doubts since the residue was there. If I were to replace tht cap. I think I shud replace all of 'em. Can't trust these lousy electrolyte's....eh!
     
  20. thatoneguy

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    Feb 19, 2009
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    I've seen many that test close to or at their value on a DMM, but will be way out of spec on a Blue ESR.
     
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