LED Ping Pong without microcontrollers

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by swapnadr, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. swapnadr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 30, 2008
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    Is it possible to make a LED matrix (mini. 10*10) Ping Pong game without using microcontrollers; making the circuit by just using basic IC’s. or 4xxx or 7xxx series of IC’s. (All logic gates, flip flops, counters, 7-segment display drivers).
     
  2. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    I suppose one could. Microcontrollers would certainly require far fewer components.

    Using a pair of LM3914 dot-bar LED drivers would make running the dot around easier. The output of one of the drivers would have to be inverted to source rather than sink current, though.
     
  3. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Hard to do actions like changing velocity and direction, though. Assuming paddles as another set of 10 leds, detecting collisions sound like a challenge.
     
  4. swapnadr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 30, 2008
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    Thank you Sir.
     
  5. steveb

    Senior Member

    Jul 3, 2008
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    In principle yes, but practically speaking it's probably too difficult using the discrete components you mention. However, you should be able to implement in a modern FPGA, which is a programmable logic device.
     
  6. vinay3

    New Member

    Dec 18, 2008
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    can tell in detail?
     
  7. shashi88

    New Member

    Dec 28, 2008
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    help us in this
     
  8. blocco a spirale

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jun 18, 2008
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    The annoying thing about most "help me I appear to be on the wrong course" requests is that the people asking for help don't bring anything to the table.

    I would hope that any student on an electronics course has some basic understanding of electronic principles, even a basic concept would be nice otherwise it's a one-way street.
     
  9. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    Electronics students today don't have a clue about electronics.
    Their teachers also don't have a clue about electronics.
    The teachers don't teach anything.
     
  10. hgmjr

    Moderator

    Jan 28, 2005
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    I'm going to throw my vote in with those who recommend the use of a microcontroller in place of the discrete logic.

    To attempt to address the complexity of such a circuit using discrete logic would force so many design compromises that the end result would surely be a disappointment.

    hgmjr
     
  11. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    You could always go with the old video ping pong, then translate it to a video.

    I think the microcontroller would be better too, but it's been invented.
     
  12. swapnadr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 30, 2008
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    The aim is to design the game of Ping-Pong on a LED matrix display (with a minimum dimension of 10 × 10 LED). The game is between the two players who’s rackets are placed in the columns at the opposite ends and only confined to move along the column. The ball (symbolized by a single growing LED) should move in the arena between the two players. The player wins the games if only he/she makes the other player miss the ball. The ball is only allowed to hit the racket and the side walls. The collision between the ball and the racket should be implemented in a more realistic fashion considering their motion.
     
  13. iceowl

    New Member

    Dec 8, 2008
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    Incidentally, Windell Oskay over at Evil Mad (www.evilmadscience.com) just produced a cool handheld LED game platform. It's on an Atmel ATMega platform for which there is a lot of freeware help on both the hardware and software side, as is much of his stuff. (Google : Arduino). So if the original poster has any interest in such stuff, that may be a better place to start than a drawer full of transistors. I know at the Maker Faire there was a demo of a Pong game on an analog oscilloscope, but I believe it used that same Arduino platform.

    Anyway. Happy building.

    Joe
     
  14. swapnadr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 30, 2008
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    Thank you Joe,
    but as i mentioned I have to make the project without using any programable device. So, that makes using a modern FPGA a taboo. I could probably use a LED Driver.
    The biggest challenge is making the ball bounce back whwn it hits the racket.
    I am still working on the model with my team members. This site has helped me so much. I extend my gratitude to all the members connected to the site and wish all of you a progressive new year.
     
  15. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Without bells or whisles it could be done with counters. You'd need 5 buttons, Player 1 Up Down, Player 2 Up Down, and Reset.

    You want a 0 - 7 counter? It would be simplier without, that would be around 4 chippies to impliment.

    I visualize a mod 12 counter, the extra bits would be for off the edge to allow the ball to go out of bounds.

    Just curious, is this a school project, as a lot of other people seemed interested?

    This would be a pile of counters and shift registers, with some digital comparitors (as opposed to op amp comparitors, totally different) on the side. You'd need to be able to determine equal to, greater than, and less than for the three bits the paddles will use.

    I suspect you are looking for the neighborhood of 20 or so chippies. TTL could do it, so can CMOS. Due to the number of chips you'll need I'd go CMOS, otherwise think 5 amps or so.

    No one is going to design it for you, but it can be done. Even though it is not a processor driven project, you will need a flow chart. You are writing code with gates. I'd recommend several large protoboards, there is no way you are going to design this in one sitting or on one large protoboard, and unless you have access to professional SPICE packages I suspect you will be larger than the student versions can handle.

    The majority of counters will be up/down, might as well pick your chips on that basis. The good news is you'll use lots of them. X and Y for the ball are two, and two more for the paddles. Six digital comparitors for the paddles (I assume they will be 3 dots each).

    You'll need to build the display separate, and complete. You could use this component, but it doesn't really matter. You won't be able to build the display on protoboards, you need the visual feedback to know if it is working.

    Given the number of registers and counters, this will effectively be a dedicated computer. You could build a 4 bit CPU with about as much effort.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  16. swapnadr

    Thread Starter New Member

    Nov 30, 2008
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    I am not surprised that many kids are interested. it is not a school project but one of the competition projects at the IIT Kanpur (India). There is very less material available online.
     
  17. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I was thinking about what I said, you could actually design a 4 to 8 bit computer using gates and shift registers (this would not be a microprocessor) and program it. You would find literature online for such a project. I remember a query about such an item several months ago, and someone pulled up a web site that had the project. Computers were around long before CPU chips.
     
  18. hgmjr

    Moderator

    Jan 28, 2005
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    I think you may be able to employ several LM3915 devices (one for each column) to implement the ping-pong function. You will need a couple of ramp generators to provide the X-Y position input and a coupled of comparators to determine when the paddle and the moving LED collide.

    hgmjr
     
  19. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Analog vs. Digital. Interesting idea.
     
  20. hgmjr

    Moderator

    Jan 28, 2005
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    It seemed a bit more straightforward than getting tangled up with oddles of gates and digital magnitude comparators.

    hgmjr
     
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