Kirchhoff's Law Broken

Discussion in 'Physics' started by Clay, May 14, 2010.

  1. Clay

    Thread Starter Member

    Feb 12, 2010
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  2. retched

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    Dec 5, 2009
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    I....I.. I just dont know what to believe anymore!

    Next it will be overuni.... nevermind.
     
  3. BMorse

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    Sep 26, 2009
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    Some say that laws are created to be broken..... this appears to be one of those laws...


    B. Morse
     
  4. Markd77

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    Sep 7, 2009
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    I don't get it. Where do the electrons go? Unfortunately the article seems very light on facts.
     
  5. retched

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    Turns into a light beam.
    But i would like to see some more info.. Patent search anyone? Im sure it will be a while. But it will contain the math.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2010
  6. Markd77

    Senior Member

    Sep 7, 2009
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    I'm no quantum physics expert, but electrons are fundamental particles and can't just be turned into photons. Besides, that would leave the whole apparatus positively charged. If they are just flowing through some kind of nano laser cavity then they come out the other side and no laws are broken.
    I suspect this might be the article writer getting carried away.
     
  7. steveb

    Senior Member

    Jul 3, 2008
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    Charge conservation is the most firmly established law in all of physics. This article is completely misrepresenting the physics. Just ignore the claim for now. If there is any truth to it, next week it will be major news, as every established scientific theory will be hogwash.

    Think about it. How many electrons can be lost from the circuit before it becomes so positively charged that it rips itself apart? If the electrons are replentished, then you have a circuit somehow, and Kirchoff's law is restored.
     
  8. retched

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    Agreed. The laser transistor is an interesting thing. Cool. great.

    I think they hired a journalist who minored in marketing to write the article. ;)
     
  9. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    Yeah, this sounds plausible. According to that logic an LED would do pretty much the same.

    Electrons create light by dropping from an excited state to a low energy state, giving off one photon in the process. Coherent radiation is a controlled cascade reaction, where one photon hits an excited electron, causing it to release an identical photon. Where there was one, now there are two, which moves on to create yet more photons. Lasers are amplifiers, and LASER light is created by the amplifier oscillating.

    It doesn't have to do this, it is also used for lightwave communications as a straight amplifier too. Took a long time to figure out this trick, but it was an important development.
     
  10. steveb

    Senior Member

    Jul 3, 2008
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    said Feng. "Kirchhoff's Current Law should be redefined as Kirchhoff 's Current and Energy Law."

    This is an interesting comment to make. If you discovered a new law of nature in which energy conservation and charge conservation needed to be combined, would you give the credit away by naming the law after someone who lived 150 years ago? Einstein became famous when he combined mass conservation and energy conservation into the law of mass/energy conservation. I don't think he made the suggestion that we call it Newton's law of mass/energy conservation.
     
  11. beenthere

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    The question not asked or answered is how a "transistor laser" is different from a diode laser, especially in the energy-to-photon conversion. A laser diode can do the trick and not misplace any electrons.
     
  12. Wendy

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    Lasers are energy, if it outputs light then some electrons have to move as part of the energy conversion. It occurs to me that it doesn't have to create light and be a laser. The acronym for laser is that of an amplifier (as I mentioned earlier), not an oscillator.
     
  13. beenthere

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    L.A.S.E.R. - Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation. Gotta be light out, or it becomes a maser. Substitute "microwave" for "light".

    From the Physorg article -
    Here is a link to the operation of a transistor laser - http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/the-transistor-laser/3

    The IEEE Spectrum article explains part of the function here -
    So we are left to imagine that fewer electrons come out than go in to the device.
     
  14. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    A few hundred million of these 'shining' on a PV panel and weve got ove___ity...again.

    This is going to light a firestorm for the OUers. And make a bunch of scammers very rich.
     
  15. Wendy

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    Key phrase highlighted. If it is an amplifier, and there is no light going in, then there will be no light going out. I suspect you're right, but it is a mistake to assume a laser is always a producer of light.

    Erbium Doped fibers are true laser amps used in communications, they take a weak optical signal (laser beam) and amplify it 30DB or more. The pumping source is infrared lasers.
     
  16. nsaspook

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    Aug 27, 2009
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    Your right, don't get hung-up on visible light.
    We use UV lasers at work to shoot the photo masks on wafer resist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excimer_laser

    http://www.icknowledge.com/misc_technology/Photolithography.pdf

    At some point in the energy spectrum mass and energy are the same. So maybe there's a little fusion reactor inside that transistor.:eek:
     
  17. Wendy

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    Actually communications lasers are infra red. Their frequencies are very precision, so they can have many different lasers down the same fiber, each a separate channel. Last I heard they used a 40GB data rate, but that is extremely old news. I suspect they are much faster now.
     
  18. guru200773

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    Apr 26, 2010
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    hmmm this is quite interesting:)
     
  19. Clay

    Thread Starter Member

    Feb 12, 2010
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    Thanks for all of the responses. I am kind of skeptical myself.
    Not like the EETimes to spread rumours. Maybe a slow news day
    and an up-all-night reporter? If you didn't see it on the 'Net', it never happened,right?

    Best regards,

    /Clay
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2010
  20. beenthere

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    It's kinda odd. Let a power transistor get hot (emit IR frequency photons), and nobody claims diddley. Why is it different when the light frequency is visible? There is no mention of terminal currents.
     
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