# Jumping from design to physical creation for a simple circuit

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Slipstreamed, Sep 1, 2015.

1. ### Slipstreamed Thread Starter New Member

Sep 1, 2015
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Greetings everyone!

I'm posting this here in the hopes of getting some general guidance in the right direction on how to take my circuit I've designed and make it a real life component to a game I have been playing.

A quick overview of the circuit is that multiple players choose a switch and once all have chosen, only those lights will illuminate.
For example, in a 3 player game, player 1 chooses switch 1, then player 2 chooses switch 2, then player 3 chooses switch 1. At the moment the 3rd
player makes the choice, the top lights will illuminate number 1 and number 2 only.

Is this something even feasible monetarily speaking?
Do I need to have a PCB manufactured?
Is this too advanced for a beginner to create?

I know this is a super broad question so I'm just looking for a bit of advice, not necessarily a step-by-step list of instructions (but I'll take one).

Thanks in advance for taking a look, and please forgive any noob mistakes as this is my first foray into this hobby and certainly this forum.

Kind regards,

Joshua

2. ### Dr.killjoy Well-Known Member

Apr 28, 2013
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What's the game so we can better understand or find alternatives to the problem at hand ..

3. ### blocco a spirale AAC Fanatic!

Jun 18, 2008
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What you have there may work logically (I don't know) but it does not constitute an electronic design.

You need to do a lot more work to turn it into a schematic from which something could be built. It wouldn't require a PCB.

4. ### TheButtonThief Active Member

Feb 26, 2011
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Dude, that's not a simple circuit. That makes my head hurt.

It looks like you have some sort of wiring diagram/connection diagram/schematic.

First, you need to compile a schematic diagram with your logic IC's, switches and outputs. The logic in your diagram consists of an assortment of gates, there's no single chip in the world that has that arrangement of gates on it so you'll have to take a look at several 74xx series of IC's in order to piece together a schematic and therefore a PCB layout.

You're certainly not going to simple "jump" form the design you have now to a completed project unless you've done this sort of thing many many times and you can pull it all off the top of your head. Though, judging by the type of diagram you have and the fact that you're asking us how to do it, I doubt that's you.

Best of luck.

5. ### Slipstreamed Thread Starter New Member

Sep 1, 2015
6
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Thanks for the input guys!

Dr. Killjoy: The game is Roll for the Galaxy - https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/132531/roll-galaxy

What I'm asking really is not so much how to make the schematic, but what would I do if I had one? What would the next step be? Alternatively, would something like a Arduino be more suitable for what I want to accomplish?

Lastly, here is a simplified version illustrating my example in the first post. (BTW, this is done using http://logic.ly/)

In the mean time, I'll work on a proper schematic. What program do you guys recommend to do that?

File size:
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6. ### mcgyvr AAC Fanatic!

Oct 15, 2009
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Using an arduino makes it simple IMO.. assuming you can write the program for it all which really isn't too difficult at all for this application
Get a Mega so you have enough digital I/O pins for all the buttons and lights

7. ### AnalogKid Distinguished Member

Aug 1, 2013
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1. What is the purpose of the exclusive-OR gates? Is it to prevent a player from turning on two switches at a time? Because if he did, the round would never end. You need valid input from all three players to end a round (light the lights), and if someone accidentally has 2 switches on there is no indication that there is an error. Two switches on looks the same as no switches on.

2. Also, Does the number of switches per player always have to be the same ans the number of players? For example, could you have f players each with only 3 switches?

3. What is the power source for the game circuit ans what are the lights (voltage and current)?

ak

8. ### Slipstreamed Thread Starter New Member

Sep 1, 2015
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Thanks Macgyvr, I will definitely look into the mega arguing.

AnalogKid,
Great questions!

1. Yes, the XOR gates function to disable the outputs if someone has picked more than one choice (toggle). The software I used has a specific option as well for "single input only" so that will eliminate the gate from signaling with odd numbers. The circuit will simply not light the LED's if there is more than two toggles selected per player. In my final design there are side indicators so you could see who has/hasn't made their choice and thusly, if the top LED's are not lit you can deduce someone goofed their pick. As in, "Hey guts, pick just one ya noobs."

2. The number of switches must be 5 for each player as that is the number of choices available in the game.

3. This shows my ignorance because I'm not sure how much power this will need until I do a LOT more homework on circuits and schematics. I don't imagine much as it's just switches and LED's.

Thanks!

9. ### Slipstreamed Thread Starter New Member

Sep 1, 2015
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OK! I have made a schematic. I have found logic IC's and labeled them appropriately so this should work in theory. I'm not certain if resistors will need to be in front of the IC's or not but here is a pdf. It won't let me upload the .fzz file though. Invalid extension.

Note that the 25 toggle switches in the original are not shown on the schematic but they attach to the XOR/OR IC's. Just seemed like a waste of time and wires to show them.

Any comments are appreciated! Fire away with the constructive criticism as I'm just entering this area of science. Loving it so far!

File size:
2.8 MB
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10. ### AnalogKid Distinguished Member

Aug 1, 2013
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I'll wade into this later, but my first comment (constructive only; not picking on you) is that there is a difference between a wiring diagram and a schematic. A schematic shows functions and relationships, and uses a specific symbol set to make the relationships clear independent of the physical arrangements. So, for example, rather than use boxes with the correct pin locations, use the logic symbols for the devices. These group inputs, outputs, and controls separately to make the circuit function more clear without needing any datasheets. Pin numbers are mandatory for troubleshooting, but not for design.

Your schematic in post #1 made the circuit function instantly clear to many of us without needing any text explanation. Your latest one, not at all.

ak

11. ### Slipstreamed Thread Starter New Member

Sep 1, 2015
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Perhaps I misunderstood this post?

12. ### blocco a spirale AAC Fanatic!

Jun 18, 2008
1,438
368
Your original diagram looks like the result of some kind of simple logic circuit builder/simulator software; It doesn't define what type of devices are used, has no power-supply components and the logic-gates may not have enough current to drive the lamps or LEDs (but they are shown as lamps), So it is electronically incomplete. Furthermore, it is unconventional in that it has an ascending layout whereas normal practice is to draw schematics with a left to right flow.

Here's a simple schematic, it may not be a great example (I just grabbed it of the internet), but it shows how to represent practical logic gates in a way that keeps their function clear while also defining what physical entity they belong to and which pins they are associated with:

Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
13. ### Slipstreamed Thread Starter New Member

Sep 1, 2015
6
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Gotcha, thanks for the clarification guys.

Also, Analog, I re-read your 1st question and feel I didn't answer it correctly. The purpose of the circuit is to only light the LED's after all inputs are selected. That's intentional

Back to the drawing board!