Is there a website that builds simple circuits for you for less than $50?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by gte, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    Is there a website where you can subcontract someone out to build a simple circuit for you, with a BOM and board layout?

    I need a simple circuit built and just don't have the knowledge to do it :confused: (I'm hoping I can backwards calculate how this one is built and learn from it)
     
  2. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
    10,152
    1,794
    Such a site would not last long. How much do you suppose a person's time is worth. $50.00 might get you 1-2 hours from an out of work engineer and slightly more hours for a technician. Is it your contention that the task you are asking for should actually take less time than that so there is room for some profit?
     
  3. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    I don't think it would take more than 2 hours to design, but $50 was just an example? But if it did, I would of course be willing to pay what is fair?

    My circuit is very simple I think? But I wouldn't know, cause I don't know how to build it :) . If you can point me to someone willing to do this, I can give them the specifics and then can give me an estimate I guess?




     
  4. bertus

    Administrator

    Apr 5, 2008
    15,648
    2,348
    Hello,

    What do you want to be build?
    What is simple, but you can not build it?

    Greetings,
    Bertus
     
  5. ELECTRONERD

    Senior Member

    May 26, 2009
    1,146
    16
    You can pay a board layout manufacture to build a board design you submitted to them and then they'll send you the board in the mail. I think PCB Electronics or something had a deal where you could get 3 boards for $50. You could simply solder in the components and you'd be done.
     
  6. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
    10,152
    1,794
    Well that is the crux of the matter. Regardless of the simplicity of the circuit I think the amount of time and effort required to meet your requirement is off by at least one and maybe two orders of magnitude. At $500-$5000 in cost it may be worth your while to reconsider the worth of your own time and effort. Many people on this board have resolved that dilema in favor of expending their own effort to learn and understand instead of parting with their hard earned resources.

    The short answer to your original question is: unlikely you can find anybody to do it for $50. Chances are improved marginally at $500. Chances become significant at $5000, and a virtual certainty at $50,000.

    Anyway if you can find someone you trust to generate a quote then by all means go for it.

    FYI
    If you have a design that you wish to make and sell, for simple boards containing a processor, some I/O, and some connectors the following budget is not atypical

    PCB Layout: $1200-$1500
    PCB Fab: in 100 Qty $450 in tooling and $10.00/board
    PCB Assembly: $700 in tooling and $6.00/board

    You can get quick turn PC boards at higher unit costs like $60-$75 ea for 2 or 3 boards
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2009
  7. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    @Electronerd - I guess I first need a .sch or .pcb design file to send to them :(



    @Bertus ( a video of the values needed is at the bottom of this post )

    I need an electronic circuit that can mimic these voltage readings

    Step 1: 1.614 vdc before the pump runs
    Step 2: 1.833 vdc while the pump runs
    Step 3: 2.041 vdc as the pump turns off
    Step 4: 1.574 vdc after the pump turns off

    The circuit will when the pump is on and off via a ground signal that will be the trigger and is already part of the car.

    I can build the part of the circuit with the voltage converter and specific voltage outputs, and a relay (probably crude) to control the transition between Step 1 and Step 2.



    What I don't know what to do:

    How to get the voltage to spike up to 2.041 when the relay is released?

    How to get the voltage to settle back down at 1.574?

    How to not let the voltage that is coming out of the sensor output wire/ecu signal input wire, to skew the voltage value that is coming out of my circuit? I tried a zener diode, and I had to compensate an additional .4 volts or something? I don't know why that was either?





    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OB6EN6tdc-Y




     
  8. bertus

    Administrator

    Apr 5, 2008
    15,648
    2,348
    Hello,

    I presume the voltage is a derivative of the pressure.
    The 2.041 peak you measure may be the back EMF of the pump.
    If a motor is switched of at once the coil of the motor will resist and try to keep the field,
    this can be seen as this back EMF.
    The voltage may be much higher than you are measuring,
    The speed of the meter can not follow this peak.

    Greetings,
    Bertus
     
  9. StayatHomeElectronics

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2008
    864
    40
    With the video and listed steps, Papabravo's estimates are looking better and better...
     
  10. Docile

    New Member

    Aug 1, 2009
    6
    0
    I'm sorry if i dont know how relevant what i have to say here is but.... I have never made my own circuit board. I have since found out in the last two days a couple of ways to do it.
    1. you can use an etching resistant pen to draw the circuit diagram on the copper plate and then etch off the rest.

    2. You can print out your circuit design on white paper, face it down on the copper plate and expose it to fluro light for a while and then soak the board in a solution to make the circuit.

    3.There are probably other ways to go a bout building circuits.
     
  11. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    Hey Bertus,

    According to the manual, the pressure is supposed to spike up as it shuts off, as a check and balance for a leak. Should I put an oscilloscope on it?

    If you were building this circuit, how complicated would it be?




     
  12. bertus

    Administrator

    Apr 5, 2008
    15,648
    2,348
    Hello,

    When you have the availability of an oscilloscope,
    you can see how high and how fast the spike is.

    Is the signal timed?
    There is a slow rice, a spike and a drop in voltage.
    I must think how to do this sequence.

    Greetings,
    Bertus
     
  13. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    I just bought a parallax pc based oscilloscope the other day. I can hook it up and make this it's first use I guess :)

    Would you like a copy of the log when I do this?

    I used to think the signal was timed for ~60 seconds, but it seemed to shut off earlier when I drove the car around instead of just letting it sit at idle for ~60 seconds. I will test it when I get off of work on the drive home, if I have my DMM in my car. If not, I'll have to let it cool down and then try testing it.




     
  14. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
    10,152
    1,794
    @Docile -- That is sorta what I was alluding to. Given enough economic incentive a smart guy like yourself is willing to spend time turning over rocks without any particular expectation of success. It is truly surprising what happens when we follow this path.
     
  15. steinar96

    Active Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    239
    4
    You dont need a pro circuit board for this unless the circuit is very complicated (depending on design method). You can propably use a normal prototyping PCB board (the ones with matrix of holes and parallel copper lines trough them).

    So if you can aquire a schematic( from someone else or design it yourself ) you can build the circuit with a cheap board. The starting cost behind building a semi-pro board yourself (with ething etc) is very high.
     
  16. steinar96

    Active Member

    Apr 18, 2009
    239
    4
    There is no "simple" circuit that can do this very cheaply. You are propably looking at a either a state machine (which involves a bit of boolean calculations and a bunch of integrated circuits)

    Or a microcontroller controlled circuit (propably cheaper then the state machine) but requires programming.

    And also you need a power supply capable of supplying multiple voltages or somehow very easily and dynamicly re-adjusted for other voltage levels.

    I dont think either of these circuits are under 50$, and the work alone is definitely worth alot more.
     
  17. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    Hi,

    I'm ok with building this on a generic board like the ones you can buy at Radio Shack or an electronic supply store. I'd love to learn about micro controllers also, is that covered in the "All about circuits" e book? I didn't see it in the table of contents, and I'm only on chapter 2 at the moment.

    Which micro controller would you suggest, and which programming language does it use? I'm hoping my novice programming experience can port over into micro controller programming?



     
  18. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    It appears that the system has a check valve in it, that only allows the pressurized air to flow one way, and when the valve seals, the other side of the diaphragm can then oscillate it and vary the pressure in the sealed chamber (sort of how a mechanical fuel pressure gauge works, with an in cabin isolator), which explains why the voltage readings drop lower than when the key is at the on position/vehicle off, after the pump turns off. The exhaust creates a venturi effect and oscillates the diaphragm, which in turn creates a low pressure situation.

    Here is a log of the car running at idle for a few seconds. When it cools down, I will log the entire time the pump is one and when it spikes up, then settles down.

    It is timed, and it seems to be dependent on coolant temp, the good news is that none of this matters because the ecu controls the timer and a solenoid, which can be taken advantage of to be the input that controls timing on this device.


    Code ( (Unknown Language)):
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    2.  
    3. Parallax USB Oscilloscope
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    5. 9/21/2009 7:00:24 PM
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  19. gte

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 18, 2009
    347
    4
    Here is a description of the circuit from the service manual, I'm getting code 2441 with my current circuit.

    If I'm reading it correctly, it continually monitors this circuit and makes sure that it gives a pressure reading when the air pump is on, and a vacuum reading when the air pump is off, and the vacuum signal should oscillate with the pulses of the engine?

    http://freepdfhosting.com/ee3362e89e.pdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  20. bertus

    Administrator

    Apr 5, 2008
    15,648
    2,348
    Hello,

    The PDF does not contain the information.
    It contains : "factuur voor comodossl certificaten"

    Greetings,
    Bertus

    PS de factuur is in nederlands gericht aan iemand in delft
     
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