Is there a better way to wire this?

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by camg, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. camg

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 3, 2016
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    I'm making a speakerbox and I'm struggling to find a switch that will do the job. Could someone find a better way of wiring this or maybe send me a link of a switch that will suit.
    The switch will need to have 4 positions and only one on at a time. I think it'll be a 4pst switch but unsure.
    3 will be the same input and 1 will be different. Thanks
    a33e22a2-2a38-4aae-a24a-cb55f38de51f.png
     
  2. dl324

    Distinguished Member

    Mar 30, 2015
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    Welcome to AAC!

    I'd use a rotary switch.
    upload_2016-6-5_14-38-36.png
     
  3. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    It's difficult to get simpler than a SP4T switch.
     
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  4. camg

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 3, 2016
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    Thanks!
    Can I get a rotary switch that has a 3 with same input and one with different do you know what I mean?
     
  5. dl324

    Distinguished Member

    Mar 30, 2015
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  6. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    I see two SPST and one SP3T switches.
     
  7. camg

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 3, 2016
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    Yeah that would work ae.
    So the only way would be to have more than one switch?
     
  8. djsfantasi

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 11, 2010
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    What's the fourth input? If you just want the fourth input to be an off, it's all in how you wire the SP4T switch. If the fourth "input" is for a completely separate circuit, then you can wire a DP4T switch for that.

    UPDATE: I looked at your sketch and see you want the latter case indeed.
     
  9. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    It depends. Your written description is different from your diagram.
    Can you make it clear, how many inputs? How many outputs?
    What are the conditions of the inputs as related to outputs?
     
  10. camg

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 3, 2016
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    Sorry I'm not that experienced with electronics.
    4 inputs 4 output
    3inputs are 230v ac
    1 input is 12v dc
    All on off
    Only one on at a time
    Sorry guys a33e22a2-2a38-4aae-a24a-cb55f38de51f.png
     
  11. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    I guess I'm getting old. I'm more confused than ever. I'd be afraid to advise on this one.
     
  12. djsfantasi

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 11, 2010
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    That added detail in your last diagram helps. It tells me that you will need a 3P4T switch. I'm not near a computer, so I can't draw a schematic, but I will try to describe it. I do have a question as to where the charger output will go, but putting that aside, here I go.

    The first pole will be connected to the PSU in positions 1&2. The other "throws" are unconnected.

    The second pole will have the 2&3 positions connected to the charger; the others are left unconnected. You need two poles for this, otherwise the AC connection to both will serve as a path to both when only one or the other is desired.

    The third pole is used for switching the battery using position 4; all other positions disconnected. Note that neither the PSU nor charger is connected to anything on position four.

    To summarize, position 1 is connected to the PSU using pole 1.

    Position 2 connects both the PSU and charger using poles 1&2.

    Position 3 is connected to the charger using pole 2.

    Position 4 connects the battery using pole 3.

    Two other items to note. When paralleling DC power sources, you should use diodes at the power input to prevent backfeeding the other sources.

    And lastly, you are powering a power supply and charger through the switch with 230VAC. MAKE SURE THE SWITCH IS RATED FOR MORE THAN THE MAXIMUM POWER DRAW AT 230VAC.
     
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  13. Tonyr1084

    Active Member

    Sep 24, 2015
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    Here's how this works: You have a triple level rotary switch with four positions. At any setting SOMETHING will be on. You'll probably want a 3P5T switch if you want the rotary switch to have an "OFF" position. Nevertheless, 4 throw or 5, the wiring would be the same. Keep in mind I did not draw in the neutral (or return) line(s).

    Here's how this works (using 4T): With the wipers in the 9:00 position only the PSU will be energized. (wipers not drawn in) With wipers in the 12:00 position both the PSU and the CHARGER will be energized. With the wipers in the 3:00 position only the CHARGER will be energized. And with the wipers in the 6:00 position only the battery is active.

    I drew only the 4T switch because it's easier to be symmetrical. I like symmetry. A 5T switch would just have one more location where it could rest - with nothing connected. In other words - everything OFF.

    3P4T Rotary Switch.png
     
  14. Tonyr1084

    Active Member

    Sep 24, 2015
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    http://www.amazon.com/ELECTROSWITCH...F8&qid=1465175410&sr=8-3&keywords=3P5T+rotary

    Here's one for $73.51. Notice it's rated for 500 mA and not for use in equipment exceeding 115 volts AC. It most certainly won't work for your application. Finding a rotary switch big enough to do the job - well - good luck. And it's going to cost a lot more than $70.

    Honestly, I think your best option (and cheapest by far) is to have three SPST switches mounted on your panel. That way you can turn one on, two on or the other on. OR everything off.

    I'm thinking there's probably an electronic version you can build, but the circuit would require a bit of thought and I'm not so sure I am up to that task. But I can imagine that you have a counter and a clock button. Each push of the clock advances the counter one step. With each output a triac is switched on then off sequentially. An octal counter along with some other components should be able to handle the task. Will take a bit of building but won't cost you nearly as much. And you'll have the satisfaction of having built the thing yourself. Just use LED indicators in your design so you can know which device(s) is(are) on at any given moment.

    I'm assuming the charger is to charge the battery. Are you opposed to running the battery while the charger is charging the battery?
     
  15. camg

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 3, 2016
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    Thanks for everyone's help
    Here's a full diagram.
    I went to an eletronic store and they recommended relays?
    Thanks Tony but it's getting quite expensive ae might do the cheap way and have lots of switches
    58fb0761-2b3b-429a-9e8d-658585bd6ee0.png
     
  16. Tonyr1084

    Active Member

    Sep 24, 2015
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    Your latest post confuses me some. Are you thinking you can isolate the charger from the power supply using diodes on the AC line? If so - nothing is going to work.

    [edit]

    Well, at least the charger will work when it and it alone is switched on. But when you try to power the charger and PSU through the PSU/Chg lead then the diodes are going to block half the AC. All you'll get is pulsed DC. The PSU will only work when it is switched on by itself.

    Remember, AC is Alternating Current. A diode is a "One Way Gate". It lets electrons pass one way and blocks the opposite.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  17. Tonyr1084

    Active Member

    Sep 24, 2015
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    Now that you mention relays it occurs to me that you could use a 6P5T switch, much cheaper, $7.00 to $15 range and use those to switch transistors that control relays.
    http://www.amazon.com/Position-Trip...1465181905&sr=8-2&keywords=6P5T+rotary+switch
    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/KCT4...-Band-Channel-Rotary-Switch/32431486962.html#!
    You'll get away a lot cheaper than $70.00 but you'll have to do a little wiring. Given your mistake with the diodes I'd suspect you'll need some help figuring out how to wire the switch.

    As for it being six poles - you will simply ignore three of them. Those switches are typically used for RF purposes (Radio Frequency) or other small current applications.

    Keep asking questions. There's a lot of really knowledgable guys and girls here (though I haven't noticed many girls) who know LOTS more about this stuff than I do. If given the task to do what you want - I could muddle through using the rotary switch, some resistors and transistors connected to relays. However, you'll probably need a low voltage power source for the transistors. Say, 9 to maybe 30 volts (but I guess at that).
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  18. camg

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 3, 2016
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    Ah right ofcouse it's like a bridged rectifer right? What if I changed the switch to the dc side of the circuit instead of the ac side would that work?

    The reason I thought the ac side would be good is because it would be good to cut what ever I'm not using right off, instead of having power running through something not connected at the other (DC)end.

    Sorry if I'm confusing you. It's really hard for me to try and explain something I know in my head but don't know the terminology to explain it
     
  19. djsfantasi

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 11, 2010
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    Switching the DC side would be easier. You likely would only need a SP4T switch in that case, plus a few diodes.

    Tie the ground connections together. Then connect the PSU 12VDC to one "throw", connect the PSU and charger connections through diodes to the next terminal, connect the charger to the third and the battery to the fourth.

    The rating of the switch would be lower and hence the switch would be less expensive. You still would have to know the amps current draw to select the correct switch b
     
  20. AlbertHall

    Well-Known Member

    Jun 4, 2014
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    I'm still confused just what you are trying to achieve. Maybe it would be better if you gave us no circuits, but just a description of what you want connected in each case. For each condition say what you want connected (we will assume that anything not mentioned is not to be connected.
    e.g.
    State 1: everything off
    state 2: the charger connected to the mains
    etc.
     
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