Inquiry on banning logic
- Thread starter shortbus
- Start date
Hello,
We mods do have our discussions about the behaviour of some members.
We are not keen on giveng a ban to a member, but sometimes we need to express our thoughts about the member and enforce that with a temporary ban.
This ban is always given with a PM to the member about why the ban was given.
Most members have cooled down afther the ban, but some can be hard to be tempered.
Bertus
We mods do have our discussions about the behaviour of some members.
We are not keen on giveng a ban to a member, but sometimes we need to express our thoughts about the member and enforce that with a temporary ban.
This ban is always given with a PM to the member about why the ban was given.
Most members have cooled down afther the ban, but some can be hard to be tempered.
Bertus
I didn't start this new post but seems I'm the one it's given credit to. And before I say anything else, the mods do a very good job here. Except for protecting new members that fly just below the TOS.
In the last couple of years there have been a few new "members" that have come in and stayed just within the rules of this and most forums. Not breaking any "real" rule, but being very disruptive. Instead of the mods giving that 'member' warnings and following through with them, the established members are the ones that are warned.
At least one of the mods is a member at ETO and all members here can do a search without joining ETO, to see that his behavior here is just like there. Within the rules but very disruptive. And ETO is not the only forum that he is not welcome at EDA kicked him off more than once under different names.
Does his behavior mean that all dumb questions and bad behavior should get all new members expelled? No. If dumb questions would get you expelled I would have been banned long ago.
He starts a new thread and a new group of people try to help him, not knowing the outcome of their efforts. And then they get frustrated too. But still there is nothing said/done to him. He was asked to flip his schematics so they could be read, but he still shows them sideways. Just because he can. But we are supposed to be civil to him.
Very frustrating for some one who loves this forum and wants to learn from it. Like LG, I have a very protective streak and can't stand to see a one bad actor get away with doing something that is wrong time and time again.
Maybe there should be a 'warning' signal for guys like this? After a few disruptive post show that this is a "near troll" poster, his name is changed to red instead of blue. This would warn people what they're dealing with. And be a warning "not to feed the trolls".
In the last couple of years there have been a few new "members" that have come in and stayed just within the rules of this and most forums. Not breaking any "real" rule, but being very disruptive. Instead of the mods giving that 'member' warnings and following through with them, the established members are the ones that are warned.
At least one of the mods is a member at ETO and all members here can do a search without joining ETO, to see that his behavior here is just like there. Within the rules but very disruptive. And ETO is not the only forum that he is not welcome at EDA kicked him off more than once under different names.
Does his behavior mean that all dumb questions and bad behavior should get all new members expelled? No. If dumb questions would get you expelled I would have been banned long ago.
He starts a new thread and a new group of people try to help him, not knowing the outcome of their efforts. And then they get frustrated too. But still there is nothing said/done to him. He was asked to flip his schematics so they could be read, but he still shows them sideways. Just because he can. But we are supposed to be civil to him.
Very frustrating for some one who loves this forum and wants to learn from it. Like LG, I have a very protective streak and can't stand to see a one bad actor get away with doing something that is wrong time and time again.
Maybe there should be a 'warning' signal for guys like this? After a few disruptive post show that this is a "near troll" poster, his name is changed to red instead of blue. This would warn people what they're dealing with. And be a warning "not to feed the trolls".
With a few exceptions we are all adults here. If you are in public and someone is being obnoxious without being abusive you are expected to walk away, not get into a fight in public.
When someone becomes abusive on this site then it becomes a moderator issue. We do not like to ban people, we usually give multiple warnings, especially to established members, unless the level of abuse reaches a certain threshold.
If you see a sideways schematic, for example, that should be a clue to just walk away from the thread. If it is in your thread, use the ignore user feature! Anything else is a major overreaction.
As a moderator I do not have that luxury. I have found threads that were painful to read, but I do it and just move on.
When someone becomes abusive on this site then it becomes a moderator issue. We do not like to ban people, we usually give multiple warnings, especially to established members, unless the level of abuse reaches a certain threshold.
If you see a sideways schematic, for example, that should be a clue to just walk away from the thread. If it is in your thread, use the ignore user feature! Anything else is a major overreaction.
As a moderator I do not have that luxury. I have found threads that were painful to read, but I do it and just move on.
and then you go and post on his question.
I wonder...if I or some other well meaning individual just posted, "Don't feed the Troll" whenever we discover another thread by this guy, would we get a warning from the moderators?
"It doesn't matter that this question is ridiculous, and no matter what anybody tells him, it won't do any good, you must be nice to the poster."
"Why did the designer use 3 capacitors and what is it called?"
It's called designing. It has 3 capacitors because the circuit needs that much capacitance.
What is capacitance? Why does it need that much? Why didn't he do it another way? What other ways can it be done? Where would a designer use capacitance?
OMG! Just shoot me.
As Bill said, we don't punish one for beign obnoxious. Period.
This stems from the fact that one being obnoxious is purely a subjective call.
I liked the example BillM brought, based on real life. I'll give a couple more.
Let's say that I'm a policeman, doing my rounds on the streets of a small town.
There's a citizen who has the bad habit of picking his nose in public, without hiding at all and then playing with the boogey. This action is definitely repulsive, obnoxious and discouraged in public. The other people know of that bad habit and have asked the citizen to stop it. He doesn't comply and eventually gets alienated from the rest of the group, who, angry about this antisocial behaviour, ask me to take action.
Am I, as a policeman, to use my status in order to enforce this member to comply with unwritten rules of the society, despite the law saying nothing about it?
If I did so, should I do the same with a 5 year old kid who picked his nose in the same way?
In another example, imagine that we all live in a nice neighbourhood, each with his own house with a garden, with apple trees in our front yards and all that picturesque jazz. Now imagine that a single resident lives in a ruin of a house, with plain dirt in his front yard, holes in the front door and windows but otherwise not infested, so as to threaten the public health.
Should the rest of us raid his house and order him to put his house straight, which ruins the image of our beatiful neighbourhodd? What if he refuses? Are we going to beat him until he does?
Think about the nature of your requests and their meaning, before you write them, please.
On the other hand, breaking the ToS is a very clear action, upon which we can pass judgment.
This stems from the fact that one being obnoxious is purely a subjective call.
I liked the example BillM brought, based on real life. I'll give a couple more.
Let's say that I'm a policeman, doing my rounds on the streets of a small town.
There's a citizen who has the bad habit of picking his nose in public, without hiding at all and then playing with the boogey. This action is definitely repulsive, obnoxious and discouraged in public. The other people know of that bad habit and have asked the citizen to stop it. He doesn't comply and eventually gets alienated from the rest of the group, who, angry about this antisocial behaviour, ask me to take action.
Am I, as a policeman, to use my status in order to enforce this member to comply with unwritten rules of the society, despite the law saying nothing about it?
If I did so, should I do the same with a 5 year old kid who picked his nose in the same way?
In another example, imagine that we all live in a nice neighbourhood, each with his own house with a garden, with apple trees in our front yards and all that picturesque jazz. Now imagine that a single resident lives in a ruin of a house, with plain dirt in his front yard, holes in the front door and windows but otherwise not infested, so as to threaten the public health.
Should the rest of us raid his house and order him to put his house straight, which ruins the image of our beatiful neighbourhodd? What if he refuses? Are we going to beat him until he does?
Think about the nature of your requests and their meaning, before you write them, please.
On the other hand, breaking the ToS is a very clear action, upon which we can pass judgment.
djsfantasi
- Joined Apr 11, 2010
- 9,163
First, I have used the ignore feature. But secondly, threads started by an ignored user do NOT disappear from view. I wish they did. I try to keep up by using the new posts feature and the results are cluttered by users I have ignored. I have to pretend to read all the threads to filter them out... Annoying (a forum issue; not a user issue).
What bothers me is the following, and please keep in mind this is based on information the OP has given out on other sites recently as well as on here.
No car circuits allowed on here, no plane circuits apparently. Each and every question the op is asking is based around trouble shooting circuits. Now those of us that have been through it all before with him know he works with aircraft parts. He himself has stated the schematics he posts are not available generally on the web. Just looking at the schematics tells you they are exactly the same ones, but that aside there has been comments regarding his posting them sideways. NOT ONCE has a moderator asked the most important question's, Are these drawings to do with your work? AND are they ANYTHING to do with aircraft.
Why is this? Just look at each he has posted they are identical in style and type, he simply makes sure he posts bits without words that give the game away. You are assuming he is at school, I can promise you this is not the case. You need to go read alot of the early stuff on ETO where he gave alot of detail, he talked a great deal about the techs he works with etc.
If your ok helping him fault find aircraft circuits without making even basic checks, then thats fine with me. I think it makes the car policy a joke but that is your prerogative. What I dont understand is why he isnt being asked, is it you know they are aircraft schematics and want to turn a blind eye? or some other reason?
I am not arguing but becoming disturbed with the amount of help given to him with aircraft, and yet asking about a car circuit is frowned upon??
No car circuits allowed on here, no plane circuits apparently. Each and every question the op is asking is based around trouble shooting circuits. Now those of us that have been through it all before with him know he works with aircraft parts. He himself has stated the schematics he posts are not available generally on the web. Just looking at the schematics tells you they are exactly the same ones, but that aside there has been comments regarding his posting them sideways. NOT ONCE has a moderator asked the most important question's, Are these drawings to do with your work? AND are they ANYTHING to do with aircraft.
Why is this? Just look at each he has posted they are identical in style and type, he simply makes sure he posts bits without words that give the game away. You are assuming he is at school, I can promise you this is not the case. You need to go read alot of the early stuff on ETO where he gave alot of detail, he talked a great deal about the techs he works with etc.
If your ok helping him fault find aircraft circuits without making even basic checks, then thats fine with me. I think it makes the car policy a joke but that is your prerogative. What I dont understand is why he isnt being asked, is it you know they are aircraft schematics and want to turn a blind eye? or some other reason?
I am not arguing but becoming disturbed with the amount of help given to him with aircraft, and yet asking about a car circuit is frowned upon??
Having seen first hand what the member in question has done to other forums using the same tactics, The answer is "just let him"?
He, like SI before him, comes in and pretty much floods the group with threads and basically wants members to accept his view of the topics. And those that do try to show him where he is wrong are flat out ignored. And this is "civil"?
If this guy was a totally new and different person, I would never have said one word about this. Every one has the right to their own way of being. But this guy has a past track record. The mod's even warned the group in one thread, "you should know that DexterMcCoy and BillyMayo share an IP address and could be the same person". If there was/is no concern over him, why the warning? He is so unwanted online that when his IP address shows up on other places he is instantly banned, no matter what name he is using then.
Why should AAC become the "Island of Misfit Toys"? Is this a thing that AAC should become known for on the web? AAC has a very high credibility. On a lot of Google questions it's the first hit. Wouldn't it be great if when some one asks, "where are trolls welcome?", AAC was a first hit?
He, like SI before him, comes in and pretty much floods the group with threads and basically wants members to accept his view of the topics. And those that do try to show him where he is wrong are flat out ignored. And this is "civil"?
If this guy was a totally new and different person, I would never have said one word about this. Every one has the right to their own way of being. But this guy has a past track record. The mod's even warned the group in one thread, "you should know that DexterMcCoy and BillyMayo share an IP address and could be the same person". If there was/is no concern over him, why the warning? He is so unwanted online that when his IP address shows up on other places he is instantly banned, no matter what name he is using then.
Why should AAC become the "Island of Misfit Toys"? Is this a thing that AAC should become known for on the web? AAC has a very high credibility. On a lot of Google questions it's the first hit. Wouldn't it be great if when some one asks, "where are trolls welcome?", AAC was a first hit?
I have...They don't..
I totally agree with the whole this is not a democracy thing, I run my house the same way. However you need to be careful, ETO was without doubt very very popular, there were a few problems that basically got ignored and a few people left and a few stayed and grumbled. Then a few trolls turned up and what I would call the core posters started to complain, you know the ones the ones every site needs, they keep people coming through the doors and rarely complain.
But Moderation knows best it isnt a democracy etc etc, and a few more core posters left. Then along came Dexter as Billy mayo, the remaining core of the declining ETO had enough and started to vent there unhappiness, the reaction was exactly what I am seeing here "we cant do anything about it BLAH BLAH BLAH". The resulting fallout has left ETO a shadow of what it was even 6 months ago, on a good day you get probably 20 new threads at most now.
That wasnt a democracy nor should it be, but when people that dont normally moan start moaning I would start to listen. As I said above I dont buy the whole we are not sure they are airplane drawings! Like I said then simply ask him to post a complete one showing say the 3 caps.
But then what? If you do that then you have to act, I have never understood the whole tread softly approach with trolls. You would think they were an endangered species.
Dont get me wrong it's your site run it as you wish, but at the moment you are running outside your own TOS, by not asking when there is good reason suspect is turning a blind eye, the moment you do that to your rules the game is over
But Moderation knows best it isnt a democracy etc etc, and a few more core posters left. Then along came Dexter as Billy mayo, the remaining core of the declining ETO had enough and started to vent there unhappiness, the reaction was exactly what I am seeing here "we cant do anything about it BLAH BLAH BLAH". The resulting fallout has left ETO a shadow of what it was even 6 months ago, on a good day you get probably 20 new threads at most now.
That wasnt a democracy nor should it be, but when people that dont normally moan start moaning I would start to listen. As I said above I dont buy the whole we are not sure they are airplane drawings! Like I said then simply ask him to post a complete one showing say the 3 caps.
But then what? If you do that then you have to act, I have never understood the whole tread softly approach with trolls. You would think they were an endangered species.
Dont get me wrong it's your site run it as you wish, but at the moment you are running outside your own TOS, by not asking when there is good reason suspect is turning a blind eye, the moment you do that to your rules the game is over
Actually we follow the ToS, both in spirit and letter, very well. The moderators work very closely as a team. It is one of our strengths. We also do not allow Ad Hominem attacks, another strength. This site is not about being popular or pleasing the audience, that comes with doing the mods doing their jobs well. This site is All About Electronics. As long as a user is asking questions that is the reason for this site they will be allowed to stay.
Then I will say no more on the matter.
I haven't dropped the question because lying is all too easy, especially when no eye contact is involved. But if you drop the question yourself and an OP admits to posting restricted content, then I'll gladly take action against it.
It's been said before: Every new account gets a clean slate in AAC. We don't care what you have been doing in your previous incarnation on the internet.
We are so confident in our moderating abilities that we offer absolution to new accounts.
Besides, why keep the old track records, when they where not written by our standards?
I am not getting involved, I am not a mod. I will ask but he has no reason to answer me, he will ignore my question. That is why I said for a mod to ask, he then has little option. Yes he could lie but I doubt he would, its too easy to prove the lie. Every question he asks is linked, together with posts from elsewhere its easy to prove he asking the same questions for the same purpose.
But ok I will ask, and I will be ignored. I sugest after I am ignored to ask him outright yourself, if he lies that would be stupid
I will ask in another of his threads.
But ok I will ask, and I will be ignored. I sugest after I am ignored to ask him outright yourself, if he lies that would be stupid
I will ask in another of his threads.
there you go Georacer I asked as you suggested in another thread where there is one of these schematics, and I got the following reply from Bill
" At this level it does not matter, the questions are so basic that anything can be used as an example. If you can not contribute to a thread then don't play.
This discussion is not about a specific circuit, it is why you would have 3 capacitors in parallel and what the pros and cons would be."
__________________
I am not taking part any more I have tried to help and point out whats going on. I strongly believe its aircraft related and I think if something goes wrong this site is liable, it would now be easy to show a lack of due diligence.
This is your choice and fully respected by me. Lets hope I and others are wrong and this isnt related to repairing aircraft parts. You have be told several times about the OP admission elsewhere as to what he is doing and repairing, a number of people have raised concerns, should something serious happen your going to have a hard time getting a defense together.
Seriously I now wash my hands of this, I want no further part in any discussion on it.
I strongly suggest others now step away from his threads.
..
" At this level it does not matter, the questions are so basic that anything can be used as an example. If you can not contribute to a thread then don't play.
This discussion is not about a specific circuit, it is why you would have 3 capacitors in parallel and what the pros and cons would be."
__________________
I am not taking part any more I have tried to help and point out whats going on. I strongly believe its aircraft related and I think if something goes wrong this site is liable, it would now be easy to show a lack of due diligence.
This is your choice and fully respected by me. Lets hope I and others are wrong and this isnt related to repairing aircraft parts. You have be told several times about the OP admission elsewhere as to what he is doing and repairing, a number of people have raised concerns, should something serious happen your going to have a hard time getting a defense together.
Seriously I now wash my hands of this, I want no further part in any discussion on it.
I strongly suggest others now step away from his threads.
..
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