#12

The problem with the low voltage approach is that to get the electrode area you need many interleaved plates all connected together and it's a pain to make. It also requires rectification of very low voltages with is inefficient as the diode drops are comparable to the required output.

In a conventional high voltage design you stack stainless steel plates and spacers in a fish tank and connect to the two end plates only. With 61 plates you effectively get 60 cells in series with each plate (except the end two) being the anode of one cell on one side and the cathode of the next cell on the other. It's quite a neat way of doing it and with a small amount of leakage around the plates he electrolyte self levels and it all just works.

I would say stick with the high voltage design, it's got many nice attributes, but put some thought into having a variable power supply that you can wind between 1.8V/cell and 2.2V/cell say. This could be lamp dimmer or variac + a choke input PSU, or it could be a switch mode PSU of some kind, or even just a transformer with a few (say 4) taps for different voltages.

 

The higher voltage sure makes more sense when you stack 62 plates.

Edit: We were typing at the same time so you went through a lot of work while I was posting that I suddenly understood your approach.

 

You posted at about the same time I did, that does look a nice cell and one that can be configured either way. I'm seriously considering buying one actually .

There are many, many, ways to power such a cell. All have a different balance of complexity, efficiency, control, cost and reliability. As I said I favour a high voltage series arrangement. In my country with 240V ac mains and I would likely full wave rectify to 340V dc, live with the pulsating input current, and drive the cell with a buck converter needing a small high-frequency inductor and one big MOSFET. If you just want to make gas wire it across 120V with a bridge rectifier and forget about it - improving the efficiency with $300 worth of components will never pay for itself. But if you want to do it as a project to learn about power supplies take a step back and set some targets for efficiency, cost, etc and then design a solution to fit those targets.

Edit: Oops, posted while someone else was typing again. Hope you can make sense of things.

 

One question on that SCR light dimmer. It says that it can handle up to 220vac. Looking at the inputs it has live and neutral. Of course if I hook up both of my home mains, I'll have two live wires at 240vac potential between them. Given what you know of these circuits would you expect that to work? Or would I need two dimmers, one on each leg? They are cheap enough I don't mind getting a couple spares.

 

You don't connect a dimmer directly to the power lines. You put your load on the wire you called, "neutral". and one should do the job.

 

You don't connect a dimmer directly to the power lines. You put your load on the wire you called, "neutral". and one should do the job.

Here's the SCR regulator/dimmer I'm referring to. It has 2 input terminals and 2 output terminals. Being marked "L" and "N" I assume these refer to the hot and neutral ac lines. But to run 240vac into this I'd be attaching the other hot wire to the N input. I assume the only thing that matters is the potential between the two wires, but I thought I'd ask - wouldn't be the first time I didn't know what I didn't know

 

I thought you were asking about a $10 dimmer from Home Depot.
This one looks like you connect the power to the 2 input screws and connect the load to the 2 output screws. No jumpers allowed.

 

The dimmer is meant for countries with 220V between L and N but it should work just fine on split-phase.

Connect L1 and L2 to terminals L and N on the input side, connect your load to L and N on the output side, don't connect the neutral to anything. It looks like the dimmer has a metal case so you should connect that to earth/ground.

 

Well I've ordered my inductor and thermistor and will let everyone know how it goes. I'm still waiting on some parts and will be traveling in a week so its going to be a few weeks before I have either a green light or mushroom cloud. This week I do plan to hook up the 220v to the SCR and rectifier and put them across a test load (720W worth of incandescent bulbs), along with a volt meter and ammeter to get that part of the circuit put together and tested.

Richard if you are interested in any of the other parts I'm using for the system let me know, would be happy to share the resource/research I've done. Though the proof will be in the pudding as they say.

 

A guy I know sells something similar. He owns Advancedelectronic.net and is an expert with hydrogen systems. He wont give up the formula or the sizing of the products, but, he builds the products, and they are sealed in a protective plastic. I bought one for him, and he asked me for the voltage used, the capacitance of the cell, as well as the load that it normally draws.

He talked me into buying a Toroid from him prewrapped, as well as a special frequency modulator and some ceramic resistors. My cell now puts out 5-20 liters per minute and draws only 6-10 amps at 120 volts dc.

Before he built this, my load was 20-25 amps and only 3 liters of output, then, the cell got incredibly hot, fuses burned, and I wasted more fuel than I saved.

I am now getting gains of 35-50% with a Volo chip in a Pontiac G6 with the ECO 4 cyl.

I swear by him, his name is Marc, and you could click the contact link at his website to get in touch with him. He charged me $1000 for the system pretuned, but, resonance can not be obtained until the cell is connected to the rest of the products. He will adjust the frequencies that are desired, all you have to do is tune the pulse width and make minor mods to the frequency to get the gains necessary with your cell once installed.

I thought he was full of s$^#, but, I saw his name in an HHO forum and some great press about him. He does ask not to shoot the name all over the net, so, I ask please not to do that more. Word of mouth is really what he wants. He doesn't want the technology to be thrown out there all over the place because it would diminish how he survives. It is his main income source.

He will not promise gains, it is merely experimental electronics he builds, as well, I had to sign a waiver covering him for many issues that could arise, as well, it states that in no way that the circuits or products he will sell you are meant to be used for fuel economy increases.

His attitude about this is to put a system together that will pound out the HHO without eating alternators, and he loves to see everybody using his designs that were modified from another designer's work, that actually made it work better, more efficient, and at a way lower cost.

The system works with any type of cell, but, is built to be used with series/parallel 21 plate dry cells or multiples. He sells those pretty cheap as well, and his are the best quality I have seen anywhere. I was impressed when I received my products.

Oh, BTW, the cap you want to use is too high of mfd, and all you will need if you are running at 110 or 220 is a 250 volt cap. I couldn't say what mfd because his rlc circuit is sealed in a solid block of molten plastic or epoxy for safety , as well, to hide his secret!

Cheers!

This is a branch off a previous thread.

I have a need to rectify 120VAC to DC for a project I'm working on. In order to smooth out the ripple/pulsing, I naively thought I'd just add a large can-size capacitor after the rectifier. But I know these are dangerous, and fortunately came here and got some good advice on how to keep my limbs attached and eyes in their sockets.

One of the obvious flaws that was pointed out was that this large capacitor was going to have a huge inrush current- probably tripping the circuit breaker and/or frying the switch among other havoc. I also had under-sized the capacitor voltage but I've changed that already.

(Note: the capacitor I'm looking at is this one:
CDE 250v 26000uf Computer Grade Bus Capacitor

It was suggested that I put an inductor between the rectifier and the capacitor to limit the inrush current. My circuit will normally draw about 6 or 7 amps with a primarily resistive load- though could occasionally require as much as 20 or 30 amps.

I've been searching around and haven't been able to find the right formulas, or figure out how to apply them at least to determine what inductor I need.

Any suggestions on what size of inductor I'll need for this, or how to figure it out? Any special considerations for the on/off switch? I assume I'll want a flyback diode across the inductor correct?

Thanks in advance,
Eric

 

This forum does not allow overunity or perpetual motion in any form.

No more HHO, overunity, or Meyer

Perpetual motion

Plus, you have practiced the arcane art of necromancy, the revival of a long dead thread. Likely the OP (Original Poster) has solved his problem in the years that has passed, or thrown it away, or something.

I am therefore closing this thread.