Ok. Now let's proceed.
Nothing is connected to the battery. The battery is at equilibrium. There are, say, 10 positive charges on its positive terminus, and 10 negative charges on its negative terminus. We connected a wire to the negative terminus. 2 electrons moved from the negative terminus into the wire. The battery pumped additional 2 electrons into the negative terminus.

No, it won't pump two electrons to the negative terminus because there is a charge on the wire that is creating a field that opposes the motion of the electrons that wasn't there before. So something less than two electrons will be pushed onto the negative terminal. To keep things a bit more in perspective (while still using made-up numbers), before you connect the wire you might have 100,000 electrons on the negative terminal and a shortage of 100,000 electrons on the positive terminal. When you connect the wire you might get 100 electrons that flow onto the wire but only 90 electrons are moved from the interior of the battery to the negative terminus to take their place. At the same time that this is going on, 90 more electrons are removed from the positive terminal (remember, it is the positive plate of a capacitor!). You thus now have 100,090 electrons on the positive terminal, 99,990 electrons on the negative terminal, an 100 electrons on the wire.

Now we have a new charge distribution between the battery's termini: there are 12 positive charges on the positive terminus and 10 negative charges on the negative terminus.
Do you believe that now the potential difference between the battery's termini is the same as it was at the equilibrium? Is it higher?

The terminal voltage of the battery is not established by the number of electrons on the terminals -- a battery is NOT a capacitor!

 

ok.....measure the voltage on a neutral wire. Record.

Momentarily touch the wire the the negative terminal.

Measure the voltage on the charged wire. Record.

Was there a difference in voltage?

Have you ever heard of induced charge?

You don't even have to touch the wire to the terminal. Bring one end of the wire close to the negative terminal and the other end close to the positive terminal. Now cut the wire in half. The half that was near the positive terminal will be negatively charged and the half that was near the negative terminal will be positively charged.

And you still don't seem to understand the difference between charge and voltage.

 

The voltmeter will show the charge. Learn to operate voltmeter.

When you quit guessing, I will try to help you.

You have a lot to learn. Good luck.

ta ta.

 

Going back to your earlier question. Connect a long wire to the terminal of a battery.
Does the wire become charged?
Do this repeatedly. Does the battery become depleted?
Connect an infinitely large conductor to the terminal. That is, connect the terminal to the earth. (#12 already suggested this in post #40.)
According to your logic, the battery should be depleted since all the charge must have been drawn away from that terminal.
Is the battery depleted?

This thread is heading nowhere constructive. I can see it coming to an end soon.

 

Going back to your earlier question. Connect a long wire to the terminal of a battery.
Does the wire become charged?
Do this repeatedly. Does the battery become depleted?
Connect an infinitely large conductor to the terminal. That is, connect the terminal to the earth. (#12 already suggested this in post #40.)
According to your logic, the battery should be depleted since all the charge must have been drawn away from that terminal.
Is the battery depleted?
This thread is heading nowhere constructive. I can see it coming to an end soon.

It was #12 who suggested that a battery will charge a wire, and the process, if repeated, will deplete the battery. If you do not want to participate in the discussion, nobody forces you.

 

The terminal voltage of the battery is not established by the number of electrons on the terminals -- a battery is NOT a capacitor!

Potential difference is work that is required to be done to move a unit of charge from one point to another. This work does not depend on the path, but depends on the strength of the electric field. The strength of electric field, other things equal, depends solely on the quantity of charge that creates this field. That is the more charge units we have, the stronger is the field that they create.
Do you disagree?

 

Going back to your earlier question. Connect a long wire to the terminal of a battery.
Does the wire become charged?
Do this repeatedly. Does the battery become depleted?
Connect an infinitely large conductor to the terminal. That is, connect the terminal to the earth. (#12 already suggested this in post #40.)
According to your logic, the battery should be depleted since all the charge must have been drawn away from that terminal.
Is the battery depleted?

Two mechanisms at play. Yes, connect a wire between the terminal of a battery and the earth and you will get a flow of charge. Very small and very brief because the flow of charge results in an overall charge imbalance on the battery that very quickly prevents further charge from flowing. If you disconnect that wire and connect another wire you do not get a fresh flow of charge because you are connecting to a battery that has a net electrical charge that will prevent any current from flowing even initially. Now, if you connect the wire to the other end you get a flow of charge that first neutralizes the battery overall and then a bit more as the same process that happened originally happens again, only with the opposite polarity.

This thread is heading nowhere constructive. I can see it coming to an end soon.

I have to agree with that.

 

Potential difference is work that is required to be done to move a unit of charge from one point to another. This work does not depend on the path, but depends on the strength of the electric field. The strength of electric field, other things equal, depends solely on the quantity of charge that creates this field. That is the more charge units we have, the stronger is the field that they create.
Do you disagree?

You are ignoring the internals of the battery and the fields that exist within.

 

The voltmeter will show the charge. Learn to operate voltmeter.
When you quit guessing, I will try to help you.
You have a lot to learn. Good luck.
ta ta.

A voltmeter does not show a charge. It measures potential difference between two points, which is work required to move a unit of charge. Measures a work, not a charge.

 

You are ignoring the internals of the battery and the fields that exist within.

All the fields that exist inside or outside of a battery are created solely by the charges at the electrodes of that battery (if we just consider a battery separated from the outside world). There is nothing that can create an electric field in the battery except for the separated charges.

 

It's been a long time since I was well and properly trolled.

Interesting thread... but I got tired of it after reading the third page... Would you mind explaining to a non-english speaker what a troll is? (outside of the Norse mythology, of course)... I have the idea of a trollish person being as "one who is annoying whilst using circular reasoning"... but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

 

All the fields that exist inside or outside of a battery are created solely by the charges at the electrodes of that battery (if we just consider a battery separated from the outside world). There is nothing that can create an electric field in the battery except for the separated charges.

Okay, then by that reasoning if you take a charged capacitor that has a voltage V across it and isolate it so that the charges that are on each plate are trapped there then you can not change that voltage, right. Let's even stipulate that the plates cannot be moved. So what happens if you then slide a dielectric material between the plates? Gee, the voltage goes down! We still have the same charge separated by the same amount of space.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

Yep. I think I'm done on this one, too.

 

Interesting thread... but I got tired of it after reading the third page... Would you mind explaining to a non-english speaker what a troll is? (outside of the Norse mythology, of course)... I have the idea of a trollish person being as "one who is annoying whilst using circular reasoning"... but perhaps I'm wrong about that.

Well, you are trolling this thread right now, because your post is unrelated to the subject of the thread.
So, I guess, a troll is someone like you.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

It's all clear to me now... thank you. It's trolling as when "one goes fishing"... see what you can catch... Though I still think my "annoying" definition was not too far off the mark.

 

Okay, then by that reasoning if you take a charged capacitor that has a voltage V across it and isolate it so that the charges that are on each plate are trapped there then you can not change that voltage, right. Let's even stipulate that the plates cannot be moved. So what happens if you then slide a dielectric material between the plates? Gee, the voltage goes down! We still have the same charge separated by the same amount of space.

As I mentioned above: "other things equal". If you take a capacitor with dielectric or without it, and increase charges on its plates, the voltage will go up. You do not insert dielectric into a battery, you do not change distance between its electrodes, so these things remain equal for the battery. In these conditions only charge separation will dictate the strength of electric field of the battery, and hence the potential difference, that is the voltage.

 

It's all clear to me now... thank you. It's trolling as when "one goes fishing"... see what you can catch... Though I still think my "annoying" definition was not too far off the mark.

If you can not come up with an answer, just stop reading this thread and posting in it.
Do you have nothing else to do? I do not want trolls to write in this thread.
I am asking people that know the subject. Let them read and discuss.

 

Uh

It's all clear to me now... thank you. It's trolling as when "one goes fishing"... see what you can catch... Though I still think my "annoying" definition was not too far off the mark.

Is it really about the fishing ....???
I always thought it was about the character of the person - very much as you originally surmised. Perhaps the idea of fishing might enter in the sense that a troll is looking to hook a hapless victim into an interminable, pointless "dialogue". Sort of a serial pest.

 

It's all clear to me now... thank you. It's trolling as when "one goes fishing"... see what you can catch... Though I still think my "annoying" definition was not too far off the mark.

It wasn't.