How to make a pulse width modulator

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by myarbro, Apr 24, 2008.

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  1. myarbro

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 24, 2008
    I'm building an HHO generator using the attached plans. Sadly, I did find the exact same question posted here last year by another individual - and a few misinformed members successfully forced closure of the topic. This is a technical forum and I have a schematic for a electronic control unit which I'd very much like to build. Any enlightened advice and expertise would be greatly appreciated. My question is not about the value of this project, so please don't bother to respond with negative opinions about it's worth or relative safety.

    Apparently the key to optimizing the electrolysis process is varying the wave form using a pulse width modulator (schematic attached). This should be an easy device to construct - but my electronics skills are simply atrophied. Would anyone be interested in helping me compile a parts list based on these diagrams?

    Thanks in advance!
  2. mik3

    Senior Member

    Feb 4, 2008
    search the internet for PWM with 555 or op-amp. if dont find something come back:)
  3. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    The concept is wonderful - producing the either the ortho or the para forms of hydrogen by selective frequencies.

    One of the other alternate energy inventors maintains that the electrolysis of water is affected by the frequency of pulses applied to it, and that it varies with the water source.

    So, for enlightened advice - it's not going to work at all like the literature promises. There are better ways to spend money, like a chemistry text to learn why the device and method won't work.

    If you want to go ahead for the experience of doing an electronic project, then the components are pretty well labeled on the schematic. I would suggest multi turn trimmers for the controls for fine adjustment. The major catalogs like Digi-Key or Mouser will have the parts. Any op amp in an 8 pin PDIP package will sub for the 741 if that's hard to find.

    Neither of these schemes is at all likely to have any measurable effect on engine combustion. The power consumed by the electrolysis is greater than the energy out in the form of H2 & O2.

    I like the one best that "permeates" the fuel with platinum vapor.
  4. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    I hope I am never called "an individual".
    Like saying, "Hey you".

    You are going to generate hydrogen all night long from expensive electricity then burn it in your car in a few minutes? What is gained?????
  5. JoeJester

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 26, 2005
    The chance to stand next to that Nobel Prize winner Al Gore and held up as an example of being green.
  6. SgtWookie


    Jul 17, 2007
    Really, I don't know what you need from us.

    All of the parts are pretty clearly labeled as beenthere mentioned.

    Basically, your chore would be to use a program like Eagle Layout Editor to capture the schematic, and then lay out a circuit board. Note that the free version of Eagle Layout Editor has a circuit board size limited to about 3"x4" and 2 layers - but it does work. Once you've done that, you can easily generate a complete bill of materials list.

    Electrolysis to produce hydrogen and oxygen gasses certainly works, although the efficiency is still rather abysmal - well under 20% if I remember correctly. It's too bad that hydrogen is an energy carrier rather than an energy creator, or one might actually "get a leg up" on that. However, if you used household power to create the oxygen/hydrogen, you might actually more than break even between the cost of electric power vs the cost of gasoline/diesel fuel. But attempting to do this using a vehicle's electrical system would be ... well ... very counterproductive.
  7. Wendy


    Mar 24, 2008
    OrthoHydrogen and ParaHydrogen? What are those?

    I like the base concept, provided the base energy is something like solar. It would be interesting to run through the costs, while electricity is expensive an electric car still runs pennies to the dollar (opinion, not fact).

    Nice to see another local on board, although it would be more correct to say Garlandsite for me.
  8. thingmaker3

    Retired Moderator

    May 16, 2005
    They are distinct varieties of snake oil.

    The real way to increase efficiency of electrolysis is to use expanded nanoparticle porous electrodes and about 76 torr pressure instead of ambient.

    Anyway... making a parts list is a simple matter of writing down all of the components listed in the schematic. It's kind of like making a shopping list from the recipes one has picked out.
  9. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
    Perhaps what the OP wants is the actual part numbers so he can be more efficient in ordering them. Assuming he is in Dallas, Iowa, Digikey may be his best bet.

    It is quite a task looking up all of the parts and some will have minimum quantities and style choices, like for the potentiometers. To get the ball rolling, though, I started with the two resistor sizes and found appropriate part numbers for him:

    1K resistor: P1.0KAGCT-ND
    10K resistor: P10KAGCT-ND

    The actual links are:

    Each resistor value is available in a package of 10 for $0.96. Digikey has a minimum order of $25, but with some of the pot choices costing as much as $80 each, meeting the minimum should be no problem.

  10. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    Hydrogen molecules appear in tow states. The ortho state has both atoms' nucleii spinning in the same direction; the para has them going in opposite directions. Ratio is about 3:1 ortho to para.

    It's significant to the people in NASA, as the molecules change from ortho to para in LH2, and give up 337 calories/mole doing it. Means that they need a catalyst to aid in the transition while liquefying the stuff.

    Can't imagine how either state could be selectively hydrolyzed or affect burning in any significant way, though.

    Remember that we have a major conflict in the electrolysis area. There is this approach that supposedly selectively electrolyzes the different forms of hydrogen molecules by applied frequency. And there is the one that states that pulsed electrolysis is much more efficient, but that each and every water source imparts some undefined difference to the water molecules such that you have to fiddle with the pulse frequency in order to maximize gas production.

    There is a rather large conflict here - the one really contradicts the other, and neither appears to have a grounding in science.
  11. gened

    New Member

    Jul 5, 2008
    Very intertaining thread here. I, too, and building an HHO generator and I've found my way to this blog for the exact same purpose - to build a PWM.

    Just to set the reasoning straight, a little...
    HHO gas, even though produced in minute increments under the hood, enables the gasoline to burn more completely, rather than the unburnt portions being wasted in the catalytic converter. The increased MPG comes from the GASOLINE burning more completely because of the HHO presence in the mixture. Not because the HHO is a significant source of fuel. (Although, there are many independent researchers developing power sources that are strictly HHO.) There is considerable amounts of gasoline that is wasted because it has not completely burned in the cylinders. The estimation is that many cars are only 20% efficient. If we can get the most out of our gas, then the HHO generators will have been worth the effort and trouble.

    All of this development is being done independently by hobbyists. If it keeps up the pace it is going at now, there will be some serious recognition for this niche and soon.
  12. gened

    New Member

    Jul 5, 2008
    By the way, the PWM is to reduce the amount of current going into these things once they have reached their optimum operating temperature. When they get hot, the draw more current. The average current has to be limited for the generators to work correctly, hence the need for the PWM.
  13. thingmaker3

    Retired Moderator

    May 16, 2005
    Ever wonder why? Conspiracy by the big oil cartels perhaps? Or maybe the Illuminati and the Tri-Lateral Commission are involved? It couldn't be so simple as dead end endeavor, now could it?:cool:

    What irks me most about these threads is that they claim to ask for a circuit - chide us for pointing out how the universe really works - and then try to shove snake oil down our throats.

    The original post's question has been thoroughly answered. There is no point in this topic remaining open.
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