HMS Bounty sinks in storm - 2 dead

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by spinnaker, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. spinnaker

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  2. gerty

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    Makes you wonder 'What were they thinking'???
     
  3. atferrari

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    When I see things like that I always wonder what the old man had in mind and what went wrong for coming to such a point.

    After all, I recall, when as a 2nd Mate in a vessel calling a US port, most probably Nola, I commented to the guy from NOOA that came on board to calibrate our barometer, that the forecast was excellent even to the minimal details.

    He said: thanks to satellites, since 1966 we never lost track of a hurricane again.

    Myself I've been in vessels in the situation to decide on the avoidance of a hurricane.

    Even today, after quitting my last vessel at S'pore, 21 years ago, when I feel strong winds here I immediately think of those out there.

    I know how you feel. Oh yes!
     
  4. loosewire

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    I know how it feels to be in an open ocean without life saving gear.

    I have had three experiences in the ocean that had a bad out look.

    You are thinking of ways to survive and make it to shore,I don't remember

    of thinking of drowning,just getting to shore.
     
  5. SgtWookie

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    Wave action is generally much greater near shore than when you're out past the continental shelf. This hurricane is causing a huge storm surge; I think I heard 13 feet in NYC and the subway tubes are flooded.

    The Bounty's captain probably decided that the ship would fare better out at sea than trapped at the shore, where the storm would batter her against the land. It's really too bad that they didn't start out a week earlier, but who could've guessed that the storm would make landfall so far north?

    It's really a sad loss. I remember the "Mutiny on the Bounty" movie when it came out, I built a model of it, and at some point we got to go on the replica ship itself.

    At 52 years old, it certainly lasted a good deal longer than a ship would have in it's time.
     
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  6. maxpower097

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    Yah its getting to the inlet or creek/bay that makes it hard. Typically these will be surrounded by huge rock jetties and stuff. In that kind of weather its more dangerous to get slammed ashore then ride it out. What I can't figure out is the boat had a top speed of 10 knots. That should have been fast enough to keep it out of harms way with proper planning, then again that might be why the Cpt. is still missing. May have decided to go down with the ship.
     
  7. spinnaker

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    What I don't understand is why he was heading south. East may have been a better choice to get well offshore.

    Plus I understand he was motoring which is pretty much a death sentence or a ship like that in a storm of that size.
     
  8. maxpower097

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    I don't understand why he didn't port till this blew over. Look at the radar. To go around it your gonna need to use the English Channel.
     
  9. loosewire

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    @ Mark77 ,I need you to rescue me again, the H.M.S. sailing ship is in the blue

    waters and white caps...with a strong current. For water comparison only, would

    you put my picture side by side....when you have time.
     
  10. WBahn

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    Mar 31, 2012
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    My understanding is that boats that are too big to come out of the water altogether are frequently better off out at sea well beyond the continental shelve rather than in close to land or docked, unless they have the option of finding a sufficiently protected cove (the definition of which depends on the storm in question).

    It's hard to make the 10 kts when you've lost all power, which is my understanding. I don't know how much use they could have made of their sails under the conditions, probably not much. I'm curious what caused the loss of power? Was it the storm or what it something else that then left them vulnerable to the storm and unable to keep up with the water they were taking on? I also can't help but wonder if the ship was really built with the intention of dealing with such seas in the first place, since it was made for a movie, after all.
     
  11. spinnaker

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    Typically a large ship is safer at sea in a hurricane but this is really not that large of a ship by today's standards.

    She had a shallow draft. Only 13ft. That is not all that more than a much, much smaller recreational sailing boat at around 6ft or so.

    I don't know much about the coast but I do know something about the Chesapeake and Pamlico Sound which has tons of rivers and creeks in which to hide. All mud. I would imagine the St. Lawrence, Delaware Bay and Abemarle Sound are pretty much the same.

    Those creeks on the Chesapeake are deep. A pain sometime trying to find a decent place to anchor a small boat.


    Worse that happens is you, break anchor and get driven aground. But prepare well and those chances are pretty slim. I've seen boats come though far worse. This storm was huge but the winds not all that strong compared to other storms. I think it was just a cat 1.

    The problem is getting in before the storm hits. If you try it during the storm, you will most likely be driven around, possibly a good distance from land.

    Go aground up one of those creeks and you pretty much can step from the ship on to dry land.
     
  12. spinnaker

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    That ship can come out of the water. In fact she was in Maine on around the 20th. She was in dry dock.

    The problem with a square rigged boat is someone needs to go aloft to set and reef sail. The way I understand it is that he did not want to risk the crew.

    I have crewed on the Brig Niagara as a non professional crew member. I was sailing under perfect conditions and it took all my courage to go aloft. The Niagara is tiny compared tot he Bounty.

    I don't know how they crew the Bounty. The Niagara had a full compliment of AB Seamen that should be able to handle the task of going aloft in a blow but they very well could have had an all volunteer crew, that might not be up to the task.
     
  13. WBahn

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    By come out of the water I meant in a manner in which it is a routine thing for the boat, not something that is a rare event or that requires special facilities. After all, an aircraft carrier can be dry docked. Now, I'm sure there is quite a gap between boats/ships than are meant to come out of the water on a routine basis and boats/ships that are definitely better off at sea in a large storm. I wouldn't be surprised if the best practice is almost a case-by-case and situation-specific thing.

    General comment: While it's all great to speculate and discuss and try to understand and learn, hopefully all of us will keep in mind that Whenever something like this happens, I always remind myself of the following: At the moment that counted, the captain draw upon all of his training and all of his years of experience and made a decision, a decision he believed in so strongly that he staked his live and the lives of everyone under his command and care on it. That it was ultimately the wrong decision is a tragedy, albeit one to be examined, studied, learned from, and perhaps even to pass judgement on. But any truly righteous judgement on the decisions and actions of the captain must be made on the basis of the information he had at the time he made it. It must also take into account the timeframe in which he had to make it. So many times I have seen commissions take months to second-guess a decision that a pilot had literally less than five seconds to make.
     
  14. maxpower097

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    I dunno a 180ft 60 year old wooden tall ship might be an issue to dry dock in 2012. There may only be a couple ports that can't handle the job. So theres that to think about. I think someone needs to watch The Perfect Storm" to get some facts around here.!.!.! :)
     
  15. WBahn

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    So.... when spinnaker says that she was dry docked in Maine recently, he needed to watch a movie to learn that she obviously couldn't have been?

    To me, spinnaker seems like a much more reliable source of information.
     
  16. Sparky49

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    Jul 16, 2011
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    We have a similar ship, called the Cutty Sark, which is now a museum ship in London. It has been pulled right of the water and has a great visitor centre right underneath it. In some ways it is sad it will never sail again, but on the other hand, there is no better way to get the public to appreciate it, when you can walk right underneath it, on it, around it, etc.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. spinnaker

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    No big deal. Boothbay is a full service marina with a 150 ton and 700 ton marine railway. Old wooden ships is pretty much what they do up there. Most likely why she was sailed to Maine for service in the firsts place.

    Here is the Bounty hauled out of the water.

    http://boothbayharborshipyard.com/railway_services_facilities.html

    At about 180 tons, she is tiny compared to some of the boats they can haul.
     
  18. spinnaker

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    I'm guessing they built a temporary rail to haul her up there?

    I guess it could be done one a large flatbed too, after all they move houses.

    A friend built a boat in his backyard. It was in the middle of the city so a small lot. It pretty much occupied their whole back yard. No space for a trailer and it would not make it around the 90° corner anyway. So they planned to build a railway with a car that pivots on it''s center. Far as I know they have not yet finished it and it has been years since it was almost complete.
     
  19. ErnieM

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    We have a deep water port or two in the neighborhoods near me. It may have been Irene (last big hurricane to pass thru these parts) we had a tall ship docked out in Greenport looking for donations for repairs. With the approaching storm they did the most expedient thing to keep her safe: They sunk her at her pier till the storm passed, re-floated her when all was calm.
     
  20. maxpower097

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    Reread post :a 180ft 60 year old wooden tall ship might be an issue to dry dock in 2012. There may only be a couple ports that can't handle the job.
     
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