hho ,is it blending with petrol

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by jaque, Sep 1, 2008.

  1. jaque

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 1, 2008
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    My idea is that the hho is improving the burning characteristics of petrol
    which is where the claims about improved fuel economy are coming from.
    Would petrol blended with a small amount of hho at the intake manifold of the engine assist the petrol to burn more effiently?
     
  2. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    You're simply adding an additional fuel and oxidizer source. It may actually create problems, as the combustion temp may go up, leading to excess formation of NOx compounds. The ECU may richen the mixture to bring down combustion temp.

    Engine efficiency is affected by more factors than the quality of the fuel stream.
     
  3. HarveyH42

    Active Member

    Jul 22, 2007
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    Pretty much every car on the road has sensor, and a computer. If you do find something pre-70s, that's still drivable, you might be able to tweak it up to modern levels of efficiency, since that wasn't a huge concern back then, but good luck passing an emissions test. Most cars will run at their best efficiency, with the fuel they were designed to use. You can mess around with the engine, without adding HHO (or anything else), and get some improvement. A basic oil change and tune-up will give miraculous improvements to a neglected and abused car. Changing your driving habits can also make a considerable difference, specifically, quit leave pieces of tire on the pavement everytime you hit the gas...
    Mostly, the people selling HHO tech stuff, are the only ones saving money, your money.
     
  4. thingmaker3

    Retired Moderator

    May 16, 2005
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    Simply keeping the thing washed will affect mileage. Ditto for keeping tire pressure correct. The HHO fad has yet to produce any valid numbers, despite large monetary rewards offered for them. All hype, no science.
     
  5. Ratch

    New Member

    Mar 20, 2007
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    jaque,

    I know that water was sometimes added to fuel in some military airplane engines to COOL down the combustion in order to run supercharged engines at a higher throttle setting without burning out the cylinders. And it was only done for takeoffs when extra power was helpful. Being able to run the engine at a higher fuel consumption to attain higher power is not the same as boosting power with the same or less fuel. Remember, water is an ash, not a fuel.

    Ratch
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2008
  6. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    Here is an article that came up on an unrelated search yesterday. I am posting part of the abstract to whet your appetite. The publisher wants $31.50 for the whole article. My library doesn't carry the journal...I may try Ohio link and some others, when I have more time. This is not a solicitation for someone to publish it here in violation of copyright.

    John
     
  7. thingmaker3

    Retired Moderator

    May 16, 2005
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  8. recca02

    Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    I Know of water being injected in combustion chamber of gas turbines. They increase the output but reduce the efficiency.
     
  9. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Any number of aircraft have used water injection to hold down compustion chamber temps - JU-88's along with NO2 injection, F-105's at takeoff, C-124's for low altitude power flying Ranch Hand missions.

    The water does flash to steam and expand, but mostly it's along for the ride. I think I have seen mention of a six stroke engine - yep, here's a link http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060227/FREE/302270007/1023/THISWEEKSISSUE - that injects water for an additional power stroke. Wonder how he keeps the steam leaking past the rings from turning the oil in the crankcase into yellow sludge?
     
  10. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    An engine burning gasoline produces about half as much H2O as CO2 (isooctane is C8H10). So, water vapor is probably not a big problem, if the oil is kept hot.

    I saw that report on the 6-cycle engine. It seems that is something that might actually extract a little more power from the heat of combustion and reduce cooling drag.

    John
     
  11. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Does make you wonder about stresses on piston crowns, though. Not to mention discussions on better mileage on Perrier vs. plain distilled.
     
  12. chrissyp

    Active Member

    Aug 25, 2008
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    Hi
    Forget about water injection, it does not work. In Europe/Asia we have fuel economy off to a fine art (gas costing around $10 a gallon). My advice is buy a European/Asian car and get 40 - 50 miles to the gallon instead of a big American with half that MPG.
     
  13. Bernard

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 7, 2008
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    Some years ago,'70's,I saw an article for converting a VW to H2.It used water injection to compisate for the low octane rating of H2. Suposidly it was driven coast to coast.
     
  14. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    Running a vehicle on pure hydrogen is certainly viable. But you wouldn't be able to generate it on demand; you'd have to carry it in a tank, which would require periodic refilling.

    Problem is, there are extremely few hydrogen filling stations around - at least in the States.
     
  15. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    I think it is still less expensive to burn pure gasoline instead of burning HHO plus pistons.
    Going too lean saves fuel but burns the engine instead. Also the increased Nox pollution will not pass an emissions test.

    EDIT:
    Wikipedia says that a university found that HHO generated in a car increases its petrol fuel economy when the engine is idling. Then the HHO is turned off for enough power for the car to drive.
    The ECU needed to be reprogrammed for the extremely lean mixture with HHO at idle. The pistons don't burn because a very low amount of power is produced at idle, just enough to make the HHO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2008
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