Not necessary. If everyone would just dump Windows in exchange for a real operating system (not necessarily Linux), virus writers would be out of a job.

Really?

What are those real OSes that I could install in my PCs (office / personal) and my laptop? How easy should be that? How much could they cost?

 

They would cost $0 and would not be user friendly. In the "grandma wants to send a mail" kind of way.
Yes, this is because grandma learned to send mail in Windows and can't learn to change the click order to do it in Linux, but that's how it is.

 

Later versions of Linux (and the more developed versions) are getting more user friendly. I would put them about where Windows 98 used to be. This includes Ubuntu (sp?) and Mint.

The big issue used to be drivers, but nowadays that is getting to be a Windows issue too. I am currently using Windows 7 and Mint, and like both.

 

They would cost $0 and would not be user friendly. In the "grandma wants to send a mail" kind of way.
Yes, this is because grandma learned to send mail in Windows and can't learn to change the click order to do it in Linux, but that's how it is.

Not the grandmas I know. I've replaced Windows with Ubuntu on a good number of PCs and laptops for various seniors (including my mom, a hairdresser) over the years. They found the system to be as easy, or easier, to use than their old Win systems.

The moment you tell them that they don't have to be cautious of what they click on, they invariably breathe a sigh of relief.

I've found that Windows "power users" tend to have a more difficult time with Linux than the average web/mail user. They are so used to pointing and clicking within the MS walled garden that they've lost comprehension as to how powerful, and simple, a command line interface can be.

Interestingly, once you begin actually using Linux (as opposed to just playing with it/evaluating it) you start to realize how small, sheltered, and confined the Windows environment is.

Besides, do you really think the Win 8 interface is all that user friendly?

 

Later versions of Linux (and the more developed versions) are getting more user friendly. I would put them about where Windows 98 used to be. This includes Ubuntu (sp?) and Mint.

Can we agree to disagree? I've not found anything since XP to be user friendly at all. Everything has to be done the Microsoft way, and if you don't like it, tough. I've tried to navigate through Win 8...what a complicated pain! Why do you need two different versions of the same app, one for the touch interface and another for the desktop? Getting to the "power menus" in 8 requires memorizing various function key/control combinations. I could go on, but I won't.

The big issue used to be drivers, but nowadays that is getting to be a Windows issue too. I am currently using Windows 7 and Mint, and like both.

I don't know of any devices today that are not supported by Linux. In fact, Win 8 just obsoleted a whole slew of hardware that will never be supported by Windows again. Off to the landfill they go...unless you use Linux in which case all legacy drivers either exist in situ, or can be compiled and installed relatively easily (as opposed to not at all). Why toss good hardware just because you are forced to upgrade your OS?

The only real reason why Windows is "more user friendly" is because it comes preinstalled and configured when you purchase a new PC. Very few believe they are up to the task of installing their own operating system, or, creating a dual boot system -- even though it is exceptionally easy. [Ed. Note: Microsoft tried to make this more difficult with UEFI, but even that is pretty much solved now].

I know for a fact that it is *far* easier to install a complete, functional, and usable Linux than Windows.

 

BTW, has this thread gone off topic? I can't tell from the title...

 

I'm doing intern at local county I.T dept. trying to start career in networking. There still converting some stuff over to 7. Also means getting rid of a lot of systems, somebody at one point thought it was a good idea to buy a bunch of win XP Asus EEE boxes, what I understand the model with XP was pretty much a piece of junk, tech told me it was always having memory errors, etc. Also server 2003 is going with XP , office 03 too.

I do kind of think it's dumb there basically forcing you to buy new version. If MS were my business I'd be like A continue updates, and associated costs, or discontinue, and give them some break on the price of a new version.

MS has a lot of issues, but I don't like Linux much, but want to get better with it. You'll never see me buy anything apple though. I have an old mac in the garage somebody didn't want was like here. In I.T I figure I may have to support a mac, so I'll keep, so I can understand basics of OS, but using for personal computing use no.

I had many people tell me I should work for MS as a product tester, some of the stuff I run into even on like server 2012, while not the latest version, it's still current. E.G print server function we have like 100 printers, there is absolutely no way to find anything without scrolling through it all.

 

You must be aware that Linux runs 90% of all web servers -- the ones with the big fat internet pipes that could do massive damage if compromised...

Linux also runs nearly all supercomputers -- including the ones that control some of the worlds major stock exchanges.

And, Linux is the underlying kernel for Android, the largest selling smartphone platform.

Don't forget about set top boxes...

And you say Linux is not popular enough to write even one single effective virus for it?

Do you remember this story from last Christmas?

Hackers who stole data for up to 40 million credit cards and debit cards used in Target stores removed encrypted data with personal identification numbers — but the theft isn't expected to compromise card holder accounts — the retail giant said Friday.

I wonder what OS they were running at the time of the HACK. Maybe Linux systems don't count hacks and Trojans as viruses.

 

Being I.T is my career path, electronics is more hobby. I have heard a lot about the target incident. There is a I.T forum called spiceworks, they had some industry specialists discuss it, and I've also seen details in other sources like network world.

This is what I understand happened, basically in this order too.

1. Target having a "vendor portal" for there contractors to submit bills.

2. A heating/cooling contractor using free malware bytes as there AV gets hit. (businesses can't in most cases use software that you can buy. Linux, etc all open source that's different. but they can't legitimately use a free version of something like an AV product.)

3. malware bytes didn't handle it as was free version, or was a new threat, or there definitions weren't current. (this was not clear as to why it didn't handle it)

4.Vendor uses computer to access the "vendor portal"

5. Something to do with this custom setup, and it's authentication used network wide logins. This means basically that the vendor could login at the office, at a PC in a store, etc. The servers were also MS OS, version wasn't stated though.

6. An administrator accessing, or a process on the server for the vendor portal was using admin privileges to the network this then gave the malware basically keys to the kingdom. (I believe it was admin logging in that did it, but it was sort of vague about what exactly it was.)

7. They had recently installed a sophisticated security system, which in I.T talk sounded like it was an intrusion detection system (IDS). (basically an IDS is sort of like anti virus, and firewall together, and ideally all internal traffic from internet passes through it. It uses definitions to find suspicious activity, and notify people, and if configured right may block it.) They got warnings from IDS, but ignored them, thinking it was a false alarm.

8. Malware is now on network, it installs itself on the register terminals which were running windows XP I believe XP embedded. This malware took the card info while it was stored in RAM, and then sent it off to some server the malware also infected. this server then "phoned home" and sent the info out to the attackers over the internet.

(I know this is a little off the topic, but I saw somebody mentioned here, so thought they may like to know.)

 

Can we agree to disagree? I've not found anything since XP to be user friendly at all. Everything has to be done the Microsoft way, and if you don't like it, tough. I've tried to navigate through Win 8...what a complicated pain! Why do you need two different versions of the same app, one for the touch interface and another for the desktop? Getting to the "power menus" in 8 requires memorizing various function key/control combinations. I could go on, but I won't.



I don't know of any devices today that are not supported by Linux. In fact, Win 8 just obsoleted a whole slew of hardware that will never be supported by Windows again. Off to the landfill they go...unless you use Linux in which case all legacy drivers either exist in situ, or can be compiled and installed relatively easily (as opposed to not at all). Why toss good hardware just because you are forced to upgrade your OS?

The only real reason why Windows is "more user friendly" is because it comes preinstalled and configured when you purchase a new PC. Very few believe they are up to the task of installing their own operating system, or, creating a dual boot system -- even though it is exceptionally easy. [Ed. Note: Microsoft tried to make this more difficult with UEFI, but even that is pretty much solved now].

I know for a fact that it is *far* easier to install a complete, functional, and usable Linux than Windows.

I guess we have to, since I've always found XP to be very user friendly. Not just my opinion, but it was the markets too.

I would also strongly disagree with the last statement too.

 

Not the grandmas I know. I've replaced Windows with Ubuntu on a good number of PCs and laptops for various seniors (including my mom, a hairdresser) over the years. They found the system to be as easy, or easier, to use than their old Win systems.

The moment you tell them that they don't have to be cautious of what they click on, they invariably breathe a sigh of relief.

I've found that Windows "power users" tend to have a more difficult time with Linux than the average web/mail user. They are so used to pointing and clicking within the MS walled garden that they've lost comprehension as to how powerful, and simple, a command line interface can be.

Interestingly, once you begin actually using Linux (as opposed to just playing with it/evaluating it) you start to realize how small, sheltered, and confined the Windows environment is.

Besides, do you really think the Win 8 interface is all that user friendly?

Drivers are an issue, yes.

Just yesterday, I got my hands on a new laptop, which I needed to dual-boot.

I wanted to install win7 (I don't like Win8 either), but the retailer's driver CD had only Win8 divers in it. I managed to source the Ethernet adapter drivers for Win7 and hoped the OS would take care of the rest. When I saw red X-makrs on half the hardware drivers, I said "F this S. I'll settle for Win8".

Afterwards, when I installed Ubuntu 12.04, all went smoothly, except for the second screen output. I connected an LG 23'' Touchscreen, initially only via HDMI. The screen would flicker. I thought of installing the closed-source nVidia drivers. They broke the system and the OS wouldn't boot correctly. I reverted to the open-source drivers who turned out to work ok, if you opened the screen after the OS had booted.
However, when I connected the USB interface for the touchscreen, Ubuntu would not only not see it, but also fail to shut-down, giving out errors and timeouts. The moment I plugged the USB out, Ubuntu would shut down immediately. From what I read, it's a general problem with touch interfaces.
On the contrary, Win8 would recognize the touch interface immediately.

 

I have no problem with disagreements as they are have an opinionated basis.

Every computer system can be hacked or infected. Never say one can't because all the opposition needs to do is illustrate one instance to disprove your opine.

Even the EINAC was rendered useless when they found a problem in a relay in a rack during an routine test. The relay was not replaced ... they just removed the moth and cleaned the contacts.

So .... ther really was a bug in that computer.

on edit ...
fixed during ... damm phone keeps changing words to what it likes.

The bug was discovered during the multi-adder test ... according to this log:

the computer wasn't the Eniac, but the 1946 Mark II. Admiral Grace Hopper, who wasn't an admiral at the time, found the bug and posted it to her log, according to http://www.math-cs.gordon.edu/courses/cs104/lectures/history/1941-1950.html