Help , mosfet

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
This is really too small for 15Amps, almost inexistent.
Take one at least the size of your PCB and mount a fan on it.

If you want to be sure if it gets to hot, put a PT100 on it (near the FET) and monitor it's temperature.
 
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yassser

Joined Jul 25, 2011
91
I checked a way to calculate the required capacitance for the power supply depending on the voltage and the current , C = (5*I)/(V*f) , for me , I =30A , V = 160V , f=50HZ , this will give 18750 uF , the max capacitor I can get is 1000uF , I can put more than one on parallel , but It's cost will be way out of my budget , Is it necessary to put this capacitance value , can the mosfet work with a signal with high ripple values.

and can it work with a variable DC voltage (output of the full wave bridge rectifier ) , or an AC signal?

the k1519 ran out in the store , so I'm using IRFP460 temporarly

http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/irf/irfp460.pdf
 

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
I checked a way to calculate the required capacitance for the power supply depending on the voltage and the current , C = (5*I)/(V*f) , for me , I =30A , V = 160V , f=50HZ , this will give 18750 uF , the max capacitor I can get is 1000uF , I can put more than one on parallel , but It's cost will be way out of my budget , Is it necessary to put this capacitance value , can the mosfet work with a signal with high ripple values.

and can it work with a variable DC voltage (output of the full wave bridge rectifier ) , or an AC signal?
yeah well, 18000uF is quite a lot. You want to put the 1000uF only to avoid blowing the MOSFET up, if the problem you are having is related to voltage spikes.
If you hadn't ANY capacitor or a very small one, I guess you would feel/hear the motor oscillate at 120Hz and you will not have a constant torque, since you don't have any feedback to regulate the PWM-pulse width...



the k1519 ran out in the store , so I'm using IRFP460 temporarly
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/irf/irfp460.pdf

This one has less continuous collector current rating...
 
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yassser

Joined Jul 25, 2011
91
Can I replace the mosfet by an IGBT with the same conditions , I know IGBTs are available in much higher current and voltage ratings , I have burned many mosfets till now and I can't afford to burn others .

and I was able to use the mosfet without a mosfet driver IC because I tried to use it before and I couldn't understand how it works , so , can the IGBT work without a driver, If this is impossible , can you tell me the basic operation principles of the driver IC and what is the use of the capacitors connected to it , because the application notes were not helpful for me.

also , can it work with the low frequency I have (1KHZ) or not .
 

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
Can I replace the mosfet by an IGBT with the same conditions , I know IGBTs are available in much higher current and voltage ratings , I have burned many mosfets till now and I can't afford to burn others .

and I was able to use the mosfet without a mosfet driver IC because I tried to use it before and I couldn't understand how it works , so , can the IGBT work without a driver, If this is impossible , can you tell me the basic operation principles of the driver IC and what is the use of the capacitors connected to it , because the application notes were not helpful for me.

also , can it work with the low frequency I have (1KHZ) or not .
Your biggest problem is that you don't have anything to measure. Sure you can totally overrate the MOSFET/IGBT and then it will work.
Why don't you try to implement first the things we posted? Bigger heatsink, electrolytic caps near the board, low gate resistance, MOSFET driver (either an IC, like the HCPL3180 very much, or any other suitable).

Which driver IC did you try? And what application note you are referring to? (that were not helpful)

After implementing all this you retest the circuit, slowly increasing PWM pulse-width and at least monitoring the MOSFET's temperature.
 

Thread Starter

yassser

Joined Jul 25, 2011
91
Thanks very much for your help , It worked .

what I did:

-used a 600V , 55A IGBT.
-used a processor heatsink and fan .
-added 3000uF after the bridge rectifier across the input voltage lines.
 

Thread Starter

yassser

Joined Jul 25, 2011
91
Hello,

The last time I said that it worked , but I tried it for only abut two minutes , then disconnected it , today I tried to test it for a longer period of time to see if it can handle working for long times , it worked very well for about ten minutes then , suddenly , the motor started rotating at the maximum speed , and I found out that both the mosfet and the diode are dead .

this is how the circuit looks like now .



there are a few things that I can't explain that could be the cause of the problem .

- when I was testing without the 3000 uF caps , when I measure the voltage output from the rectifier using the multimeter while it is in the dc mode , it measured 120V , I used it in the ac mode , it gave 45V ac , when I installed the 3000 uF caps , the dc reading became 160V while the ac reading became around 9 volts ac , I can't explain how did the dc voltage increase .

- another thing is that when the circuit was working , the diode was heating up , what I know is that this diode has no effect when the motor is running , It only works when the motor stops suddenly , even this never happened , I change the motor speed very smoothly , why would the diode be heating when the motor is running at a constant speed .

this is the layout



THANK YOU
 

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
both the mosfet and the diode are dead .
- when I was testing without the 3000 uF caps , when I measure the voltage output from the rectifier using the multimeter while it is in the dc mode , it measured 120V , I used it in the ac mode , it gave 45V ac , when I installed the 3000 uF caps , the dc reading became 160V while the ac reading became around 9 volts ac , I can't explain how did the dc voltage increase .
Don't worry about it, just use the bigger caps.


- another thing is that when the circuit was working , the diode was heating up , what I know is that this diode has no effect when the motor is running , It only works when the motor stops suddenly , even this never happened , I change the motor speed very smoothly , why would the diode be heating when the motor is running at a constant speed
Everytime you turn the PWM pulse off you'll have a current through this diode, that's why it's heating up.
It looks like first burns the diode and then the MOSFET/IGBT since there is no more protection for it.

1. Is the diode mounted on a heatsink? What was it's temperature?
2. Is the IGBT getting hot?
3. What was the switching frequency?
4. What's the power supply voltage of the 2110 and therefore the voltage of the gate pulse?
 

Thread Starter

yassser

Joined Jul 25, 2011
91
Don't worry about it, just use the bigger caps.
These caps are expensive in my place , If I don't add caps , would it be wrong , and what is the scientific reason behind that.



It looks like first burns the diode and then the MOSFET/IGBT since there is no more protection for it.
Is there a protection that I can add?



1. Is the diode mounted on a heatsink? What was it's temperature?
yes , but the small one I showed before , I wasn't aware that the diode will be working while the motor is running .



2. Is the IGBT getting hot?
I can't tell because I installed a huge heat sink and fan on top of it , and I couldn't find a thermometer to use , but the heat sink was very cold.


3. What was the switching frequency?
1KHZ


4. What's the power supply voltage of the 2110 and therefore the voltage of the gate pulse?
15V , I tried to make it work with a 5v supply but it didn't work , In the datasheet it says that there is an undervoltage detect and that the pwm must be higher than 9v , and the pwm must be between (Vss - 0.3 ) and (Vdd + 0.3) so I made the supply voltage 15V , and it worked .
 

Thread Starter

yassser

Joined Jul 25, 2011
91
Could the LM324 be causing problems? Why is it in the circuit if you have the MOSFET driver IC to drive the IGBT gate?
Because there is an undervoltage detect in the IR2110 , pwm signal must be higher than 9V , so I use the amplifier to amplify the 5v pwm signal from the microcontroller , If I don't do that the IR doesn't work.
 

praondevou

Joined Jul 9, 2011
2,942
These caps are expensive in my place , If I don't add caps , would it be wrong , and what is the scientific reason behind that.
Just to have a (almost) constant DC-voltage. If the motor is not loaded and there is no problem in having varying torque according to the mains frequency, no problem.

Is there a protection that I can add?
The diode is the protection. You could add a snubber , but without oscilloscope it doesn't make sense to try this. You have no information on what is going on in your circuit.

15V , I tried to make it work with a 5v supply but it didn't work , In the datasheet it says that there is an undervoltage detect and that the pwm must be higher than 9v , and the pwm must be between (Vss - 0.3 ) and (Vdd + 0.3) so I made the supply voltage 15V , and it worked .
That's ok.

what should I do , should I use another heatsink and fan for the diode as well .
heatsink, yes, if it got hot... the diode could also die because the motor exceeded the maximum surge current rating of the diode...

We are just guessing here... better get yourself an oscilloscope. :cool:
 
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