Help Me With This Short Circuit Water

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Firebatx, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. Firebatx

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 15, 2005
    4
    0
    One of my m8s has this idea and i want show him that what he is saying is utter rubbish....

    He says that it is impossible to short circuit with only 3 volts in the circuit.
    He says that is is very unlikly that you can with 12 volts in a circuit.
    He says that water will no way short ciruit a circuit.
    He says that pure water will not short circuit a circuit


    Can you please clarifly these statements and please say what is possible and have some proof from you experts out ther...

    Thanks
    Adrian
     
  2. mozikluv

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 22, 2004
    1,437
    1
    hi,

    we must remember that water is an electrical conductor. do a google search on electrical conductivity of water.

    your question 1 & 2, are you referring to being electricuted? :p
     
  3. Firebatx

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 15, 2005
    4
    0
    Well breaking a circuit like if you were to just drip a bit of solder on the pads on a PCB which would short it out and stop the circuit working right


    So any yer, even if means getting a shock
     
  4. David Bridgen

    Senior Member

    Feb 10, 2005
    278
    0

    Your "mate" is talking though the back of his neck.

    The only true statement is the last one. Laboratory-grade reagent water is an insulator.

    http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~scdiroff/lds/E...ityofWater.html
     
  5. Erin G.

    Senior Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    167
    1
    Water by itself does not conduct. It's the minerals in the water that porvide the path for current. De-mineralized, such as de-min bottled water, will not conduct. Any other water probably will. In industrial boiler chemistry, it's very common to monitor how well they've removed the minerals from the boiler feed water by checking conductivity. Check out this page

    http://[url=http://www.derwentwatersystems.co.uk/conductivity-instrument.html]Water conductivity[/url]

    About a year ago we had a rain seal go bad on a station that stepped 69KV down to 480Volts. The seal was gone on the 480 side, and we discovered the problem when it rained. It blew up when the water shorted the bus leads. Dont try to tell me plain, untreated water doesn't conduct. ;)

    Whether AC or DC, if you connect the two wires of your circuit (+ and - on DC, hot & neutral on AC) you will have a short circuit condition. The amount of load drawn under this short circuit condition will be proportional to the internal resistance of the circuit, and therefore will have varying results. In some of the electronics circuits I work on, we have things that are fused at .1 amps: that's 1/10th of an amp. So a short in this circuit (5volts DC, by the way) will definately blow the fuse. I know, because I've had to replace these fuses, and trouble shoot and remove the shorts from the circuit.

    On the other hand, I know a guy who get's a kick out of shorting the + and - of a high amp, 9VDC battery with a 12AWG wire. There is no fuse to blow, but the wire gets so hot that he's able to light his cigarette.
     
  6. Firebatx

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 15, 2005
    4
    0
    Again this doesnt seem to be enought...


    He says :
    wel im not convinced cos it dont say "u can create a short circiut wth tap water wen only using 3.7 volts"

    Is this possible?
     
  7. Erin G.

    Senior Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    167
    1
    You can create a short circuit with tap water when only using 3.7 volts.

    Any water that has not been de-mineralized will conduct current. The more minerals in the water, the more the water will conduct. Remember that the minerals in the water are what's actually carrying the current, but who cares? If you get water on your circuit, you get a short.

    As I said before, the results of the short circuit will vary according the internal resistance of the circuit, the size of the wires, how the circuit is fused, etc, etc,...
     
  8. David Bridgen

    Senior Member

    Feb 10, 2005
    278
    0
    As him why.
     
  9. Firebatx

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 15, 2005
    4
    0
    He says

    "I know for a fact that its not possible you need a larger voltage to short out a circuit. I know this for a fact and it makes sence."

    Whole thing started with if he was to wash his phone with water he thinks the water wont short circuit the electronics as its only a 2.7 volt battery
     
  10. David Bridgen

    Senior Member

    Feb 10, 2005
    278
    0
    Not any more he doesn't, he has been told differently in this forum.
     
  11. Erin G.

    Senior Member

    Mar 3, 2005
    167
    1
    When he washes his phone, is it likely that smoke will pour out of it, or that the circuit boards will melt??? Probably not. However, with the battery in, and water coming into contact with the circuitry, he's definately going to have some problems. It will almost definately permanatly damage the phone's circuits, unless he's just very lucky. If he were to take the battery out, wash the phone, then let it dry for a good day or so, probably nothing will happen, again, if he's very lucky.

    My son dropped our cordless phone into the tub, which was being filled with his bath water at the time. I got there just in time to snatch it out, as it was hitting the water's surface. It got pretty wet, so I immediately took the battery out, removed the cover and let it dry until the next day. When I put the battery back in, the phone had a lot of static on it, and within an hour or so, died: permanantly.

    So what I want to know is why anyone in their right mind would want to wash any electronic device with water??!!! Water and electrons are a bad combination, period.

    If his phone is that dirty, tell him to buy some isopropyl(sp?) alcohol. It evaporates very quicky and is commonly used to clean electronic ciruits, when they are NOT energized.
     
  12. Firestorm

    Senior Member

    Jan 24, 2005
    353
    0
    "water won't short circuit his battery since it is only 2.7 volts"
    Water might not touch the battery is the case is tight enough(unlikely)
    Basically the 2.7 volts doesn't even matter.
    thx l8er

    -fire
     
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