Gravitic Special Effect Celestial Object

tshuck

Joined Oct 18, 2012
3,534
The attraction of particles of mass is occuring because the Space/Time between them is being altered or warped. The greater the colective mass the greater the warpeture.

In a Hollow Sphere...and let's say it was made of a material that it's generated Gravity would collapse...the attraction or Space/Time warpeture would be created by the surrounding sphere itself...thus all particles making up the sphere directly adjacent from each other would be attracted to each other and cause such a sphere to collapse inward.
Assuming that there are no other forces acting on the particles that make up the sphere.

Gravity is a weak interaction, until the density(that is, the amount of matter within a specified volume) gets to a point that it can overcome the other, relatively, stronger(per force exerting unit) forces, gravity will take a back seat to most other forces, including chemical bonds that might be making up our sphere.
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
There is no answer at this point in time, that's why the biggest goal in quantum physics is the unification of the Standard Model with gravity...

We don't know the mechanics, we know the effects.
Of course. I asked you this question because you posted about it.

Split Infinity
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
Assuming that there are no other forces acting on the particles that make up the sphere.

Gravity is a weak interaction, until the density(that is, the amount of matter within a specified volume) gets to a point that it can overcome the other, relatively, stronger(per force exerting unit) forces, gravity will take a back seat to most other forces, including chemical bonds that might be making up our sphere.
Again...of course.

I was detailing a discription of the Space/Time Geometry specific to this example.

Split Infinity
 

tshuck

Joined Oct 18, 2012
3,534
You have yet to answer the question of what happens to the particle. Since you have not, the answer is that the particle will continually oscillate about the center of the sphere without damping.

Likewise, your tunnel through the earth will result in an always moving ball, provided equal mass distribution of particles in space on either side of the tunnel.
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
You have yet to answer the question of what happens to the particle. Since you have not, the answer is that the particle will continually oscillate about the center of the sphere without damping.

Likewise, your tunnel through the earth will result in an always moving ball, provided equal mass distribution of particles in space on either side of the tunnel.
I agree with your first example...IF...the Particle has Mass...if it does not then Gravitic Effect must be great enough to hold for instance...a Photon at the center.

As far as your second answer...No.

The ball will experience a decrease in speed and momentum each time it passes through the Gravity Well. The reason for this is best explained by using an example.

If the ball did not slow down and eventually stop...within the Gravity Well...then it would be impossible for the Gravity Well at Earth's center of distributed mass to effect that material into a greater density.

If what you say is true then any particle of mass among Trillions upon Trillions of others would simply attract each other and come together to form a UNIFORM SPHERICAL DENSITY...without a super hot high density core.

Split Infinity
 

tshuck

Joined Oct 18, 2012
3,534
Again, you are taking a limited example and applying it where it should not be. The universe is pervaded by energy, enough to overcome the weak interactions odd gravity. If gravity was the only force, then all particles would come together, heat h up, and expand, then collapse back, indefinitely.

In my example, the point is to determine what happens to something with mass, so attempting to discredit me by making that caveat is not adding anything to the discussion.

In your tunnel example, the call is given kinetic energy, where does this kinetic energy go then? If the ball is truly at the bottom of some well, it must be in the lowest available energy state, in this case, no kinetic energy as the ball is motionless. There has to be a transfer of energy, unless you are also suggesting the physical laws are also wrong?
 

Pladuim

Joined Apr 5, 2013
11
Hey Split,

Haven't had much time to post in here, but this site is exactly what I have been looking for. Definitely a lot of information to absorb.

I'll send you a pm once I get the required posts in.

Pladuim
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
Hey Split,

Haven't had much time to post in here, but this site is exactly what I have been looking for. Definitely a lot of information to absorb.

I'll send you a pm once I get the required posts in.

Pladuim
PLAD!

I have missed you! LOL!

Did you happen to check out my topic in the Off Topic section specific to you?

It's titlled...Give Credit where Credit is Due.

Check it out.

Your Friend,

Split Infinity
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
Again, you are taking a limited example and applying it where it should not be. The universe is pervaded by energy, enough to overcome the weak interactions odd gravity. If gravity was the only force, then all particles would come together, heat h up, and expand, then collapse back, indefinitely.

In my example, the point is to determine what happens to something with mass, so attempting to discredit me by making that caveat is not adding anything to the discussion.

In your tunnel example, the call is given kinetic energy, where does this kinetic energy go then? If the ball is truly at the bottom of some well, it must be in the lowest available energy state, in this case, no kinetic energy as the ball is motionless. There has to be a transfer of energy, unless you are also suggesting the physical laws are also wrong?
Tshuck...first of all I have absolutely no malicious intent...so please do not take offense if the way I am coming off would seem to you as you have posted...that being your words...attempting to discredit me...or YOU as it is specific to.

I believe you are a very intelligent and thoughtful person who bases their concepts and logic upon reality and high probablity...not on guesses. If I have somehow insulted you...please bring it to my attention as I would want to resolve such issues.

As far as this particular issue is concerned...Potential Kinetic Entropy is occuring every time the ball passes through the Gravity Well....AND THIS EXACT AND SPECIFIC ISSUE IS WHAT THIS TOPIC IS ALL ABOUT....as well as why I named the topic the way I did.

There is a Special Gravitic Effect occuring and effecting anything that encounters the actual Space/Time Geometry existing and specific to a One Dimensional Expression. Although this is well below SINGULARITY...it does exhibit some of the strange and unknown effects and behaviors that would occur in a VASTLY GREATER QUANTITATIVELY WISE...in Black Holes.

Split INfinity
 

tshuck

Joined Oct 18, 2012
3,534
I agree with your first example...IF...the Particle has Mass...if it does not then Gravitic Effect must be great enough to hold for instance...a Photon at the center.
This was part of the initial condition. To leave it out makes the problem lose focus of what it was trying to prove. Restating it thus makes it appear as though I hadn't formulated my scenario properly and that you can only agree under strict conditions.
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
This was part of the initial condition. To leave it out makes the problem lose focus of what it was trying to prove. Restating it thus makes it appear as though I hadn't formulated my scenario properly and that you can only agree under strict conditions.
Well...I am a bit tired so you seem to have lost me here.

Do me a favor as I do not want to seem like I am dissing you...could you straighten this out by asking me a specific question...and maybe you already have but I did not sleep last night as My Girl was moody...in a good way...so I am not thinking entirely straight...but ask a question I can answer that will be specific to sorting this issue out.

Thank's.

Split Infinity
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
...so to sum it up, you're saying energy is disappearing?
In a way...YES!

The ball is not only falling but it is also traveling along with everything else such as from Earth orbiting the Sun, our Sun orbiting the Galactic Core, our Galaxy moving at a specific directional vector within our Universe and our Universal Space/Time and all within expanding and accelerating.

Thus the ball only has Potential Kinetic Force until it actually transfers it by interaction. Under usual guidelines an object in motion will stay in motion until acted upon by another force...be it Magnetic, Electromagnetic or interaction with another object or particle of mass and of course energy...as a Photon even though being energy...does obtain momentum even though massless.

Everything I just typed is specific to a FORCE. Gravity is NOT a Force...it is an effect.

When an object or particle of Mass or Energy already in motion...as in REALITY....just about EVERYTHING is in a state of motion within our Universe thus just about EVERYTHING has Potential Kinetic Force and momentum...comes into contact with an existing Quantum Field...it will disrupt it thus transfering kinetic force to the particles of mass.

When an object of mass or Quantum Particle/Wave Forms encounter Gravity or Space/Time curvature...they are not FORCED into motion or in a Photons case...it is not FORCED into following the curvature of Space/Time...they are simply EXISTING at positions determined by such curvature or warping due to gravity.

As the BALL enters the Gravity Well...and in this case the gravity well of a Planet or Earth...it's Potential Kinetic Energy experiences an entropic condition that is specific and calculated by the geometric differential between the gravity wells existing space/time warpeture and that of Singularity.

Since in a Singularity Potential Kinetic Energy, Momentum, Space/Time Geometry and all and any known energy's, matter or forces experience COMPLETE AND TOTAL ENTROPHY.

Thus even though Earth's Gravity Well is no where near the level of what would be a Singularity....anything that encounters this Gravity Well will still experience Potential Kinetic Entrophy to an extent.

Split Infinity
 

russ_hensel

Joined Jan 11, 2009
825
"Potential Kinetic Force" is not something that exists in physics even though
Potential Energy does,
Kinetic Energy does,
and there are 4 forces although it is true that sometimes gravity is treated as an aspect of 4D space time.
It is unusual to use the caps as I have above.
 

Thread Starter

SplitInfinity

Joined Mar 3, 2013
423
"Potential Kinetic Force" is not something that exists in physics even though
Potential Energy does,
Kinetic Energy does,
and there are 4 forces although it is true that sometimes gravity is treated as an aspect of 4D space time.
It is unusual to use the caps as I have above.
OK...you are right as far as given definitions.

Potential Energy is just that...Potential...until it interacts with something.

Defining Space/Time as 4-D I would have issue with..as well as how you described Gravity being an aspect of 4-D.

Split Infinity
 

russ_hensel

Joined Jan 11, 2009
825
Simple space has 3 dimensions ( check ) and time is one more. Look at special relativity to see how these are combined in one 4 d space ( and why ) which can be done with fairly simple math, google "4 vector" for lots of info, much of it not too hard. Lets us know your level of mathematics -- then we may be able to give better references. Differential geometry is key to GR but not at all necessary for SR.
 

Mikado

Joined Apr 14, 2013
8
Assuming that there are no other forces acting on the particles that make up the sphere.

Gravity is a weak interaction, until the density(that is, the amount of matter within a specified volume) gets to a point that it can overcome the other, relatively, stronger(per force exerting unit) forces, gravity will take a back seat to most other forces, including chemical bonds that might be making up our sphere.
Exactly. The density of matter is key.

I like the way you put it.

Mikado
 

Mikado

Joined Apr 14, 2013
8
Well Split, I see you have that old topic of yours being discussed here. As before, you are simplifying too much and attempting to be specific only in some areas....that won't work.

For example, the density of matter determines the amount of the effect of gravity. The earth is not uniform in it's density therefore your example does not address this issue. Secondly, the material that the tube is made of will have an effect upon the ball, unless of course you ignoring that as well.

Here is a question for you, you say that the tube is a vacuum. I assume that you say this to eliminate the effects of friction upon the ball.

Next question, if the above answer is "yes" then you state this to remove any effects upon the ball that would slow it down?

Mikado
 
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