Gold Scam?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by tracecom, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. tracecom

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  2. takao21203

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    look at the user name, has some raunchy meanings
     
  3. strantor

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    100 mils = 0.1", or 2.54mm. That looks about right to me, about the thickness of a ritz cracker.
     
  4. joeyd999

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    Says it has 1 oz precious metal content.
     
  5. takao21203

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    These are 100 mil thick just coated with gold
     
  6. takao21203

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  7. jpanhalt

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    AliExpress has them even cheaper:
    upload_2015-1-15_5-58-18.png

    On an earlier search, I found one that was a little more accurately advertised as "gold covered bronze art piece." At $2 each, it may just be painted wood. Can't wait for the first post here that asks: Why doesn't my gold conduct electricity.

    I agree that it is a scam.

    John
     
  8. strantor

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    I am in no way speaking with authority on this gold, or any gold, as i know nothing about gold specifically. But i do know that anything desireable eventually gets a counterfeit doppelganger. Take designer handbags; my wife found a "great deal" on a michael kors bag on ebay and bought it. Turns out it was faker than a 3$ bill. But that doesn't mean that every bag being sold on the internet with the MK logo is fake (except on alibaba; if its on alibaba, almost guaranteed fake).

    My conjecture is that This buffalo bar deal probably started out as a real deal. They were probably highly sought after by collectors, which stirred up opportunity for counterfeiters to take advantage. Now the market is flooded with fakes. But the collectors are probably still out there looking for the real deal, and apprently there's quite a few who, for whatever reason, believe this specific one in the aution is genuine, and are showing us all just how much faith they have in it, with their almighty dollars.
     
  9. strantor

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    Either that, or he's gotten a bunch of friends to bid it up so it will come off to a naive the way i explained it,
     
  10. tracecom

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    I sent him an inquiry on ebay. Here is the response, so he's not misrepresenting the product, but is relying on the ignorance and greed of some people.

    Dear tracecom,

    .100 Mills meens it's plated with .100th of a inch of 24k gold

    - raunhotrod
     
  11. Kermit2

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    .1 inch of gold plate would be a thickness of .2 inches of gold combined. almost 1/4 inch. plated? gold is plated onto other metals by electrolytic methods. thicknesses of more than 1 or 2 thousandths of an inch are rare. the plating peels off if it gets to thick. I offer another way of looking at it. .000001 inches is 1 millionth. .0001 inches is a common plating thickness for gold (wiki it...) and is also called 100 mills.

    so about $17 dollars of gold is plated onto that ' thing'
     
  12. tracecom

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    Apparently, the amount of gold is deliberately obfuscated with the term "mill," which is not well defined. Here's an explanation snagged off the web which seems plausible to me.

    "Some of the old timers use to say "flakes" or in mathmatical [sic] terms 1/1000000 of a troy ounce. (millionth) or mills. So 100 mills is 1/1000 of a troy ounce. So gold as of last week is $1380. So a 100 mill gold bar is worth $1380/1000 or about $1.38. So 5x that or a 500 mill bar is about $6.90 in gold value."
     
  13. jpanhalt

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    In the US, there are 3 or 4 "types" of gold:
    1) Jewelry, which is the least desirable for someone who wants to invest in gold. However, it can be a good investment for someone knowledgeable about jewelry. It is also (usually) the least pure version.
    2) Numismatic gold (http://www.providentmetals.com/knowledge-center/bullion-vs-numismatic-coins.html), which is primarily pre-1933 gold coins. In that year, the US outlawed the private ownership of gold (called the people gold hoarders). All privately held gold bullion was bought by the government at a fairly low price compared to the open market. Existing gold coins survived.
    3) Modern gold coins that are considered "bullion" because the face value is a small fraction of the fair market value. The Canadian Maple leaf is one example. Several countries produce such coins.
    4) Bullion bars.

    The last two types ("bullion") are usually quite pure. The practical differences between bullion coins and bars are: 1) a small difference in acquisition cost/oz. troy (coins>bars), 2) bars are often in larger denominations/weights than coins, and 3) on sale or conversion to another commodity or cash, a genuine coin will often suffice; whereas, it is more common to require that a bar be assayed. ALL bullion can be confiscated under the executive order and subsequent law passed in 1933/1934 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102). In 1971, Nixon effectively made ownership of bullion again legal, but it is believed that the government can reverse course on that.

    Gold bullion is a commodity. Anyone who thinks he is buying it on an open market (e.g., ebay) at less than market is being swindled. One well know exception to that is the use of gold as barter to escape a country. Many Chinese escaped to Hong Kong and other sanctuaries when Mao took over and used their gold for that passage. It is quite easy to buy gold at more than market value based on the amount of gold present. I suspect that is why some listings for these bars list them as "art."

    John
     
  14. takao21203

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    its a Replica but its not disclosed. Violation.
     
  15. djsfantasi

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    I received my reply to the auction item.
    It sold for $530.00! Yikes...
     
  16. tracecom

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    The winning bidder is probably rejoicing at what a deal he got: an ounce of gold for $530. I wonder if he will get it appraised, or just sell it to someone else.
     
  17. jpanhalt

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    I don't understand that phrase/run-on sentence.

    I wonder whether the seller means: "...it's plated with 0.17th of an inch of gold per gram, core of bar is copper, and yes, it's just a collective bar." Some of those commas may not be essential in modern grammar, but the first one, if correct, is needed. Regardless, the bar presumably weights about 31 g (1 Troy oz) total. Thus, 0.17 inch of gold per gram = 5.27 inches of gold! Maybe it is gold leaf.

    I do hope the buyer hasn't already sold an ounce of gold short for $1100 or something like that with hopes of filling that order with his collectors' piece.

    John
     
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