Many people get reliable results with homemade boards, either photo or laser print, with 10/10mil DRC. I do 12/10 using photo-etch. Double-sided is not a big step from there.

I can do the fine pitch single sided when using the laminator, but not with the iron method (uneven pressure/heat squishes the toner around).

The jump between that and getting perfect registration for the same detail level between two sides in one etching session is a big jump.

I've had several where vias were centered on one board at one edge, and on the edges of the pad at the other corner of the board. Once the via count gets over 10 or so, I don't trust myself, and a board would probably arrive with solder mask, vias, and screen by the time I ruined 4 boards to get perfect alignment.

Others with more practice of DIY double sided, or even multilayer DIY boards with far more patience than I cultivated are able to get amazing performance. It is a huge matter of practice and the exact methods, which vary between people who do the toner transfer method.

Yes, Photo boards are much easier to "get right", but also have more steps/material cost per board. Again, it's a personal choice, some like the Zen of making their own board, solder mask, vias, etc. I usually just want to get the hardware together to debug the software.

 

I can do the fine pitch single sided when using the laminator, but not with the iron method (uneven pressure/heat squishes the toner around).

What laminator are you using?


I have an idea to try my flattop electric stove again. This time I am not going to let it cook as long. I am also going to try using a rolling pin. I'll try tonight if time allows but the Steeler game is on tonight.

 

What laminator are you using?

I use photo-etch most of the time, so no heating step. Just print to 2 transparencies, expose and develop. When I have used magazine paper it has worked well using an iron and small dowel, but edges aren't as nice. Can likely get them as good as with photo with practice, but currently won't go under ~20mil.

 

I use photo-etch most of the time, so no heating step. Just print to 2 transparencies, expose and develop. When I have used magazine paper it has worked well using an iron and small dowel, but edges aren't as nice. Can likely get them as good as with photo with practice, but currently won't go under ~20mil.

Do you treat your own boards or do you buy pre-Sensitized boards?

 

What laminator are you using?

It's an ABC Laminator that came with "PC Board in a Box" Kit from DigiKey. I think it is similar to what Bill uses. I still use the "PC Board in a Box" white transfer stuff for a "silkscreen" layer.

After getting it for $100, I wonder why I wasted so much time with an iron and different printers.

 

Do you treat your own boards or do you buy pre-Sensitized boards?

I do both, though mostly pre-sensitized nowadays (MG Chem). I haven't noticed a difference.

 

It's an ABC Laminator that came with "PC Board in a Box" Kit from DigiKey. I think it is similar to what Bill uses. I still use the "PC Board in a Box" white transfer stuff for a "silkscreen" layer.

After getting it for $100, I wonder why I wasted so much time with an iron and different printers.

You don't need a laser printer with "PC Board in a Box"?

 

You don't need a laser printer with "PC Board in a Box"?

Yes, it still uses toner from laser printer, but their film isn't nearly as picky as photo paper or magazine paper. The laminator can do magazine/photo paper just fine as well with an additional pass.

 

Far as I know a laser printer is still a requirement. I have heard stories about the specialized ink jet printers that will print on a flat surface. I've also heard about using wet ink jet copies, but I'm disinclined to consider those.

I've gotten good results with both glossy magazine paper and wax paper. I prefer wax paper because it is clear. Removing the paper without damaging the resist is still a minor problem. I've finished the transfer and cleanup of the board I showed earlier, and have drilled and mounted the parts. Tomorrow I hope to do tests on several projects after I solder wires to them (the buck LED regulator is the other one).

 

I've finished the transfer and cleanup of the board I showed earlier, and have drilled and mounted the parts.

The Biggest reason I like Surface Mount ICs!

Sidenote: With a DIY board, use Testors 1601 "Transparent Candy Emerald Green" for a solder mask "look", it doesn't actually mask perfectly, but makes boards look a bit better.

 

I think toner makes good SMT boards, but I've got to climb the eagle learning curve to get the small graphics. If I keep doing this it will happen.

The new PCB stock took a lot longer to etch. I suspect the copper is thicker. Good, but a PITA.

 

Removing the paper without damaging the resist is still a minor problem.

Have you tried adding a few drops of dish washing soap or liquid fabric softener to your water? Either will cause the water to soak in faster and farther into the paper. They help break down surface tension of the water, makes the water 'wetter'.

Also the water should be hot, just under the point of boiling, not just room temperature.

 

If you've followed the threads (there have been several) you know I have done hot water. The down side of really hot water is it also softens the toner. I'll try the dish soap solution, but I'm also thinking of an old electric toothbrush. Cheesecloth also works well.

 

soft toothbrush works fine, too. I just add a bit of detergent and scrub with my fingers.

 

Toner is plastic.

That should help you in understanding what chemicals will and will not affect it.

Soaps are fine. They help.

The toothbrush is good too. (Soft, as mentioned by tyblu)

Cheesecloth, a shirt, sock, sponge, anything to agitate and further degrade the paper without scraping off or melting the toner.

 

If you've followed the threads (there have been several) you know I have done hot water. The down side of really hot water is it also softens the toner. I'll try the dish soap solution, but I'm also thinking of an old electric toothbrush. Cheesecloth also works well.

The toner temp is around 400F - 420F melt temp. I was just repeating what I had read on another site.

When using wax paper aren't you going to get wax transfered onto the drum of the printer? That would eventually give problems with the quality of the print, right?

 

Yes, you should use single sided waxpaper, and run the waxy side against the paper when printing.

It can coat the fuser.

Some have said the fuser is hot enough that a single, regular paper page printed will clean it right off.

That makes sense to me. Wax that thin, melts at a pretty low temperature.

I cant imagine it being good for the printer in the long run. But I couldnt imagine molten plastic being good for it either.

I have heard Pulsar is the best, and next is Avery Labels sheets. Use the BACK of the sheet, not the side with the labels.

Some have said they release so well, that they are reusable. Never tried it.

 

Don't know if they still make it,but, how about 'freezer paper'? The white stuff that was smooth and shinny on one side and regular paper on the other, used to wrap meat for freezing. Print the toner on the shinny side.

 

A lot of these experiments have been done.

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/...4601-diy-toner-transfer-paper-cheap-easy.html