Get the Lead Out

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Metalmann, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. Metalmann

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 8, 2012
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  2. NetDoc

    New Member

    Jan 6, 2014
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    Bonne Terre mine just outside of St Louis is now a popular dive spot. It boasts a 120 mile lake a hundred feet beneath the surface. It goes another 400+ ft deeper. It was dug from 1860 to 1964 and the principle ore was galena. That's what we get lead from. The mine did not close due to anything but economic pressures. Lead was no longer being used in paint or gasoline. We've found a lot of substitutes for lead in my life time and even hunting and fishing are seeing the effects. In it's elemental form, lead is a poison. I'm glad to see it go. There's a real push to recycle lead/acid batteries and there's a market for it in Scuba diving weights.

    If you ever need lead, I suggest you dive any of the artificial reefs here in the Keys. I pulled up close to a hundred pounds of lead in two dives with a buddy off of the Duayne a few years back. That's a lot of lead. Glad to see it go.
     
  3. tracecom

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
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    Correct, and none of the substitutes have been good for the sports.
     
  4. Sparky49

    Active Member

    Jul 16, 2011
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    I know there's some debate over the use of lead shot in shooting, but what about the fishing?

    What difference is there between the lead shot and whatever stuff they use now?
     
  5. alfacliff

    Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2013
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    bismuth has been used, it is a heavy metal thats toxic too. most of the non lead shot is balistly different than lead, either larger to compensate for less mass, or much harder, causing bore erosion. havnt tried anything in rifled barrels yet.
     
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  6. NetDoc

    New Member

    Jan 6, 2014
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    I respectfully disagree and so does science: http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1972

    Anything that negatively impacts the environment ergo negatively impacts shooting sports. Birds must eat small rocks for their crops to work efficiently. Unfotunately birds show no discretion between lead pellets and harmless rocks.

    What's at stake? People don't want to be inconvenienced by using alternative solutions. In diving, there have been no real solutions proffered. However, there are a few places that have outlawed the use of soft weights that are comprised of lead shot. Personally, I would love to have some brass weights, but the cost would far exceed that of lead. That's OK for personal use, but for those running a commercial operation it would be significant. They already have issues with lead walking off their boats as it is. Steel is not much of an option for divers either. We already have to deal with all sorts of corrosion issues and even stainless rusts in salt water
     
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  7. tracecom

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
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    I take all government reports with a grain of salt...or lead...especially in areas where I have extensive personal experience.

    And it is ironic that the cost of brass diving weights prohibits you from using them, but the cost of non-lead projectiles is to be ignored.
     
  8. Sparky49

    Active Member

    Jul 16, 2011
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    Hi, what's the bad effect of using non lead shot in fishing?

    Genuinely interested. :)
     
  9. tracecom

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
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    I was primarily talking about shooting sports, but the problems with non-lead sinkers and jigs are: (1) they cost more, (2) they are bigger for a given weight, and (3) the number of birds saved will be negligible. Next will come bans on monofilament line and then hooks; after all, if fishermen didn't use those items, think of all the brown pelicans that would be saved. At some point, the rights of human beings are more important than the rights of snail darters.
     
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  10. Sparky49

    Active Member

    Jul 16, 2011
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    Ah okay.

    To be honest I've never really noticed.
     
  11. NetDoc

    New Member

    Jan 6, 2014
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    Were they to be made, I would be among the first to buy them. I pick up lead on every dive here in the Keys, even in the sanctuaries. I can't wait for them to outlaw plastic bags as well. Too many bags out there on the reefs and they kill so much.
     
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  12. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    Why not go, "stone age" and wear some rocks on your weight belt?
    Because they aren't the ultimate in high tech?
     
  13. Sparky49

    Active Member

    Jul 16, 2011
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    It's funny, a lot of stores here charge 2 or 3p for a plastic bag, the sheer inconvenience of it results in more people taking or reusing bags for their shopping. I have noticed a marked decrease in waste plastic bags around the house and the countryside.

    I've used the same plastic bag for shopping since I've started uni, you get nectar card points too. Great stuff and it all adds up.
     
  14. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
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    In what do you throw your garbage in? Here, the waste bins in the kitchen are coated inside with the plastic bags from the shopping.

    One more thing. It's been some years now, since decomposing plastic bags have been issued in the market. Leave one in the sun and it will fall apart on the touch in a few months.
    The other day, when cleaning the lab, we stumbled upon a bag from a supermarket chain that had closed down for more than 10 years. The bag was as good a new! We couldn't believe our eyes.
     
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  15. Sparky49

    Active Member

    Jul 16, 2011
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    Our bins don't have bags in them, the bin men just tip the rubbish in the back of the truck.

    I think a difference here, is that plastic bags for waste are being used, rather than just thrown around or lost like the plastic bags for groceries.
     
  16. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
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    No, I was referring to the waste bins of our homes. In the kitchen and in the bathroom.

    We have bins that are about the same size as the groceries bags. We don't use big, black, plastic bags to lay inside the kitchen bin. We use the supermarket ones.
     
  17. tracecom

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
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    I misread your post; I thought you said brass weights were available, but were too expensive.

    Perhaps there's a moneymaking opportunity for you, assuming there are other divers who are anti-lead. Brass weights should only be about 3.5 times the price of lead.
     
  18. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    In what dose is bismuth toxic? Bismuth is the active ingredient in pepto-bismol! Bismuth sub-salicylate.
     
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  19. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    The same bag- holders exist here too, most people just want a huge black or whit plastic bag lining their enormous garbage can so it can hold all of their spoiled left-overs and empty wrappers from all of the frozen and processed food so common here.

    We manage to fill about three of the plastic grocery babe per week with garbage but our garbage-hauling company insists that we have a 240 liter (60 gallon) bin for these few bags like our neighbors have.
     
  20. NetDoc

    New Member

    Jan 6, 2014
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    They aren't dense enough to make enough of a difference. If you're not a diver, you probably won't understand just how cumbersome weight can be. I often dive without a wetsuit and a steel tank so I don't have to use weight. Weight=warmth. That is, the more exposure suit you are wearing, the more weight you'll need to sink it.

    Lead has a specific gravity of about 11, meaning it's 11 times heavier than water. Limestone has a specific gravity of just over 2. Porous limestone, which comprises much of the state of Florida can be as little as 1.7. That's a large volume of rock to stuff in your weight belt.
     
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