Also keep in mind the amazing statistic of how many Terrorists were stopped or caught by the TSA: ZERO.

But the feel-ups and scans are also meant to be a preventative. Who knows how many planes would have gone down by now if there were no security measures?

 

True enough, but then it could be that guy jumping up and down.

They are a small minority, but one success is all out of proportion of their numbers.

 

Well, this was 20 years ago.

I have not been on a taxiway in 15 years.

I have not even seen an El-Al plane in 15 years.

There was only one ticket counter for El-Al back then, and it was shared with other "rarely" visiting airlines. For instance, AppleAir or CarnivalAir, even ParisAir. They may only have 1 or 2 flights a week, so they share a ticket counter and split the lease price.

So it isn't like you can walk by an El-Al counter 24/7 and see a fully armed fellow.

They were only there for an hour. If you didn't check in during that window, too bad. You were staying in sunny Baltimore.

They were VERY efficent.

All airlines say they want a minimum amount of "ground-time" for their planes, but for Elal it was for security.

The plane landed and was greeted ON THE RUNWAY by the armored greet vehicle (Which was also the armored take-off vehicle) and followed to the taxi-way onto the ramp and to the jet-way.

In under 60 seconds after full stop, the plane front wheel was chocked and pinned (the pin disconnects the pilots controls from the landing gear. That way when you have a push-pole connected between the push-back vehicle and the front gear, the pilot doesn't accidentally hit a steering control and snap the pole or swing it around and swat any humans in the area.

So, after all-stop the head-mechanic meets with the pilot/co-pilot and finds out about anything odd that needs to be address mechanically. He also checks the on-board mainteance schedule to see if anything needs to be done.

While that is happening, the ground crew is pulling the luggage cans off the plane and getting them to customs.

Once they are out of the way, the freshly filled out-going cans are loaded. Re-fueling begins.

A team of cleaners and armed guards clean vacuum and re-stock the plane.

Back-pack vacuums make this a breeze. Really its a 10 minute job.

6 when the guards appear agitated. (they are the ones with the guns )

As soon as the cleaners are off, and the galley is re-stocked, the outgoing passengers are loaded. (Only after a dog-sweep to be sure the cleaners didn't place any contriband)

Belly door is shut, ok is received from the maintenance guy, and push back begins.

Often this is less than 20 minutes TOTAL.

The less time the plane is on the ground, the lower the chance for there to be a problem.

It is a pain for the airport because their can be NO OTHER PLANES on the runway when El-Al prepares for take-off.

I would rather be out of the way of that 50cal anyway.

The security vehicle rides along side of the plane until it leaves the ground.

Well before any of this, there are background checks done on all humans that are involved with the flight. Be it passenger or employee or contractor.

If you were caught with a joint in 1969, you are NOT getting anywhere near that plane.

The same stickers that they use on the baggage are also put on the people dealing with the plane. And let me tell you, that is one sticker you make SURE isn't about to fall off.

They do not speak English, so bullets come before questions.

This is a minimum manned security detail. In other countries, there are 2 or 3 guards to each employee.

Only air-force 1 is treated the same way here..at least that I have seen.

 

Was the new TSA procedure implemented by Larry Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

 

Was the new TSA procedure implemented by Larry Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

Ahh! Thats a blast from the recent past.

" I just needed some toilet paper. "

" I am not gay! Im bi-sexual. "

Airports are a zoo. People used to look forward to flying. People used to dress in their Sundays best when flying. Now, you will be seated next to a man who takes up 2 seats and hasn't showered since Eisenhower was in office.

I remeber years ago enjoying the flying experience.

Before there were in-seat screens, there were little lcd displays that you could play crosswords and basic video games on. You used the in-seat phone as the controller.

It was neat. I enjoyed it. The flight staff was jovial and happy. Now they appear hawk-eyed and iffy.

I dont know if they are simply being more observant, or just trying to appear that way.

The one guy who cussed over the intercom, grabbed a beer, and deployed the escape slide, is a modern creation.

I dont believe anyone would display such a lack of restraint during a shift on a plane.

It makes one wonder how many other employees are about to "go postal". The employees are scrutinized much less then the "public", so they should be added to the "watch list". Especially if they have had prior problems.

I would rather go fist to fist with a guy on board with a box cutter than have to deal with a pilot who just found out the wife is clocking time with his best friend.

...Then there is Chesley Sullenberger

I would pay to fly with him....wait... I pay to fly with whoever is assigned the flight.

 

Was the new TSA procedure implemented by Larry Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal

I don't think he liked them young. Youtube Video of 5 year old getting strip searched

It seems obvious that the kid had malicious intent from the get go, doesn't it?

 

I don't think he liked them young. Youtube Video of 5 year old getting strip searched

It seems obvious that the kid had malicious intent from the get go, doesn't it?

Thats horrible.

Want to go to a place to get rubbed on and not pay strip-club prices?

Visit your local American Airport!

_NO AGE RESTRICTIONS!_

 

Simple metal detectors, X-ray of carry-on (i.e., current methods), profiling, and hiring Israeli security.

Medal detectors - Works great for pocket knives and box cutters, but not so much with explosives, drugs, or bioweapons.

Profiling - While this works its by no means fool proof. Anyone can smuggle drugs, or bomb something white, black, christain, hippie, etc..

Isreali Security - I though the point was to stop things from blowing up?

 

I don't think he liked them young. Youtube Video of 5 year old getting strip searched

It seems obvious that the kid had malicious intent from the get go, doesn't it?

The true story is the kid failed a metal detector for some reason. They flaged him and his father through the pat down lane. His dad removed his shirt to expidite things. They patted him down as per rules, and passed him through. That was actually security working perfectly. The guards didn't make him take off his shirt. The dad did it to speed things up so a line wouldn't form. Also for record the family in the video said everything went great through security and were no problems.

 

The true story is the kid failed a metal detector for some reason. They flaged him and his father through the pat down lane. His dad removed his shirt to expidite things. They patted him down as per rules, and passed him through. That was actually security working perfectly. The guards didn't make him take off his shirt. The dad did it to speed things up so a line wouldn't form. Also for record the family in the video said everything went great through security and were no problems.

So, this is "Typical American Freedom" at work, or are we simply being desensitized to such things for what is to come to schools, buses, taxis, etc?

 

No but getting on a plane you need to be searched, and if the metal detector goes "ding ding ding" when you walk through it, and your about to board a major airliner, I think its ok for the authourities to do a pat down search.

 

We still don't know why some people believe you need such intrusive searches to get on an airplane.

Is it like blowing the horn in tunnels to keep elephants out? There hasn't been a shooting or bombing in the US in a very long time. Even with 9/11, the box cutters were not considered prohibited at the time. Had they been, they would have been detected with procedures then in place, and 9/11 may well have been prevented (assuming of course that the security agents were not vegetables).

On the other hand, we have metal detectors in our schools, and shootings still occur with alarming frequency. If you want to save lives, that is where the focus should be.

John

 

Given the current spat of Grecian bombers I have to wonder if the laxity will last that long. Any government that doesn't take something like that seriously isn't going to last. I suppose it is inevitable, every major country (US included) has malcontents willing to go to extremes, such as the Oklahoma City bombing.

Seriously though, I have to wonder if you get the same news I do. There is a consistent concerted effort to to anything to hurt the west, such as the reasonably large number of bombs from Yemen just under a month ago. This wasn't aimed directly at the United States, just transport air liners in general. Fortunately most of these guys are idiots. I suspect a Darwinian aspect, if you have any brains you follow more productive paths to instigate change, you don't build bombs. You most especially don't make yourself into one.

While I don't agree with everything my country does, there is a war going on, outside Afghanistan and Iraq. The only reason Greece hasn't been heavily targeted is there is no propaganda value to it. Your country is mostly Christian too, last I heard, so you are also a viable target.

It is interesting that the TWA has finally seemed to hit a thresh hold where people are starting to declare enough!.

I don't think Greece can be a target of international terrorism any time soon. You see, we don't have any open warfronts, haven't "colonized" any countries recently, haven't made any wars for resources and don't try to tell all the rest of the world how to behave.

I don't mean to be rude or accuse anybody. I 'm just poining out that in its way to become one of the biggest world powers, USA has made many enemies. It is a direct result of its expansion policy. This is a natural state of things for a world leading country.
On the other hand Greece has no political ambitions, just tries to survive economicaly. It doesn't have anything other people might want and this is what assures me. You can't take from someone something he doesn't have....

 

Problem is, AMERICANS dont do those things. Our politicians (who lie to get elected and do not typically do what we want) do these things.

So, it seems politicians dont REALLY care about bombings and such unless it affects a business they are attached to or a friend or family member is killed.

They are simply a reason to start a business, pass legislation to require a particular company to be used, in turn, getting rich(er)

 

It's easy to blame America for everything wrong in the world, but WHO does the world call on when things go wrong? I don't agree with most of what our politicians do,(Your right Retched, it is the politico's) but for other's to blame America is wrong too.

 

That is correct. Also, Americans are the #1 consumers of the world. So I would like to hear an exporter complain about Americans.

We sign most of the worlds paychecks.

American politicians and giga-business men sell out America at every chance.

Look around. If you are in India, chances are you are employed by an American business.

If you call a help-line, chances are you are calling India.

If you drive-thru a McDonalds drive-thru, you may be talking to India.

They actually stream the drive-thru to foreign countries. For what?

To increase the amount of money that shareholders receive.

Increase that number and you increase your giga-bonus amount.

Politicians are taken care of for the rest of their lives by legislating requirements. They require us to use a private company for a particular 'thing' and that company no longer needs to advertise.

They set their own price and reap the rewards.

After a few years of getting fat, FINALLY the government says "Hey, those prices are TOO HIGH!"
Company says: "Woah! your right! We will start am investigation into what we can do about it."

Then the company sets the price a little lower and the government allows competition to actually compete. This is only after the instigators are fat and rich enough to put there great-great grandkids through a privileged life and retirement.

This is not purely American. The thing is, in the countries that are complaining about Americans, they are not allowed to complain about the local businesses that are doing the exact same thing. They could end up dead for saying their government helps their companies get rich.

It is business. Business is the reason for government.

Until politics should be like jury duty.

Everyone thinks the justice system should be fair. So jury duty is the way it is.

If you want government to be the same, follow the model.

Greed is a human infestation. It cannot be removed, only controlled.

If you asked someone to solve the problem with greed in our political system, they would try to figure a way to get rich in the process.

 

...and don't forget. Business nowadays doesn't have borders. Business relationships affect everyone in the world community, hence the term globalization.

The question is, up to which degree should a minor country sacrifice its independence for good business deals? Local politicians make deals with outside major players in exchange of fat cuts behind the unaware people's backs. In the end, a smaller business deal done with transparency could bring a better profit to the community than a multi-billion shady agreement.

 

...and don't forget. Business nowadays doesn't have borders. Business relationships affect everyone in the world community, hence the term globalization.

The question is, up to which degree should a minor country sacrifice its independence for good business deals? Local politicians make deals with outside major players in exchange of fat cuts behind the unaware people's backs. In the end, a smaller business deal done with transparency could bring a better profit to the community than a multi-billion shady agreement.

The answer is: A government is paid by taxes. If you have a company in you country, the government makes more if the company makes more.


Taxes+bribes+political contributions.

Lobbying is to bribery as the opposite of black is to white.

All the little guys do, is make deals to make the businesses more money.

For example, look at the little island countries that house thousands of companies because of law differences. Swiss bank accounts.

Delaware houses most all creditcard banks. Delaware drafts their laws in such a way to attract businesses.

The primary job of a government is to keep your business partners alive.

This is expensive. So ally with the USA! Now, the USA is paying for and protecting the country so it is free to deal with income through taxation.

You can become attractive to businesses because your taxes can be lower because you do not have the military expenses that other countries but you still have world class protection (The US armed forces).

Business is the reason for government.

If it wasn't for business making money, the government would have no money.

No money, no power.

 

The problem with the system is it's keyed to detecting any anomaly instead of possible dangerous items. This leads to a vast number of false positives and "Security Theater" instead of security measures. The people who design these things are not stupid and have done simulations that I think show that the current level of training and caliber of TSA personnel can't handle standard screening measures and fail random testing unless the standard is at the threat noise level (everybody).
They don't even know when to change gloves.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trav...es-communicable-disease-transmission-tsa.html

 

They don't even know when to change gloves.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trav...es-communicable-disease-transmission-tsa.html

We mentioned that before.

All they need is a few "under the drawers" inspections and spread herpies or the like.

They DONT change gloves, so this is MORE THAN possible.

It would knock them down a few notches.

Also, what would happen if a TSA employee DID find an explosive on someone during a pat-down?

Ten bucks says they run their hiney off.

I would!