I suppose that if you injected enough water and some of the waste heat converted it to steam this would increase the pressure in the cylinder since water expands 1700 times when it converts to steam.

But this would have to be achieved without quenching the combustion.

Tricky

Water injection like you're suggesting has been used in performance applications for quite some time to prevent detonation.

If you're looking at injecting water to harness the energy used in producing steam you might want to look at this, a 6 stroke engine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crower_six_stroke

The theory behind it seems pretty solid, it would be nice to see more money backing his research as I think it has some promise. Despite having quite a few hurdles to overcome I think it might be viable in some applications.

On a side note I would like to say it's so refreshing seeing some educated discussion on the subject of this "hydrogen generator" or "water fuel" or whatever people want to call it. I've beaten this subject to death on other forums and many people just do not understand the laws of physics are immutable and what they're trying to accomplish is impossible.

 

Comes with having some education, I suspect.

 

It's one thing to think outside the box, but blind folly to totally ignore the basic laws of physics.

hav u ever build a H2 + O2 generator b4 dismissing it as folly?


nope, right?

 

I'm looking forward to some real numbers myself. Reading Linchieks posts posts we might actually get something.

hav not started yet......

but here's a link to keep u guys interested.......

http://www.gethydropower.com/demos.html

 

Hmm... How evil of me would it be to sell variable-frequency, variable-PW, solder-it-yourself kits for moderately exorbitant prices?

most of the enthusiast even posted the PWM controller circuit for those interested to build it themself.... like myself..... looking 4ward 2 get all those component this weekend.....

 

Does changing (retarding) the tides affect the earth's rotation? Are there any environmental studies you might be able to give links to?
John

not sure 'bout this...... but building skyscraper will coz the earth rotation to slowdown....

see what happens when to the speed of rotation of a ballerina when she extended her hands......

 

How do your units work?
Our Electrolyzers separate oxygen, hydrogen, hydrazine and nitrate from a proprietary electrolyte solution by using power generated by your alternator. A portion of this gas is commonly referred to as Browns gas.

How much energy is needed from my alternator?
At initial startup in the service center each bank of 10 - Cells, it will require about 30 minutes to fully charge. During the first 15 minutes it will require about 25 amps. After this it will draw about 20 amps per 10 - Cell bank. Depending on the number of Electrolyzers you may require a higher amperage alternator. We have these available when necessary.

Why does the unit go through a charging stage?
Our engineering design and proprietary electrolyte solution work together to make these individual cells hold an electrical charge. By doing this, we are able to create more gas with less energy than any technology we know about today.

Why is this important?
Energy created by your alternator is finite. You may want to add other items that will require additional amperage. This design allows you more flexibility and increases your options. Also, there is a cost for driving an alternator. It creates drag on the engine, just as an air conditioner compressor does.

What are other benefits of using less power?
If your alternator is continually overworked your fuel mileage will go down, because there is no such thing as free energy. Also, with too much of a load, your alternator may not achieve its intended life expectancy.

How does the gas get into my engine?
The gas is drawn into your engine under a vacuum. This provides a constant supply of hydrogen and oxygen to enhance combustion.

How much gas is being produced?
We have recorded a minimum of [120 Liters] of combustible gasses per hour per [10 - Cell Bank] Depending upon how many [10 - Cell Banks] you install simply multiply the volume. Keep in mind that the tests we ran were conducted by forcing the unit to push the gas out. We install an air compressor that creates a vacuum which increases the output by up to 45%. The level of production is the highest ever recorded for a vehicle mount On Demand system. For example our 2 Bank system [The Gorilla] puts out a minimum of 240 Liters of combustible gasses per hour, our 4 Bank system {The SilverBack] puts out a minimum of 500 Liters, our 8 Bank system [The Kong] puts out 1,000 minimum. Now factor in the increased output from the air compressor All units we are aware of put out a total of ~40 - 60 Liters per hour MAX!

How does "Browns Gas" provide fuel savings?
The primary benefit of our technology is to the combustion process inside your engine. This is accomplished through the addition of oxygen, hydrogen, Hydrazine and Nitrate which enables a more thorough burn of the petroleum. In effect, we are replacing a small percentage of normal atmosphere with a gaseous fuel.

A secondary benefit is derived by converting the 10 amp buffer your alternator provides into additional fuel for the engine. Once your engine management system adjusts to the new environment, the injectors will be instructed to deliver less petroleum to the engine.

Why are your electrolyzers so big?
In this case, size really does matter. Many units on the market consume 15 - 30 amps of energy from your alternator which may take it to its maximum limits of ~40 - 60 Liters per hour. These units are generally small, require more frequent maintenance, and may burn out over time. Often their recorded output is a combination of water vapor created because of the excess heat created over such a small plate area plus being in a small container and being under the hood where it is the hottest.

Our engineering design and proprietary electrolyte solution requires exactly this much space to work at peak efficiency. This also reduces your need to refill the unit so frequently. Additionally, we have created a very serious electrolyzer. This is not a novelty item!

Why are your Electrolyzers manufactured using a transparent material?
This is for many reasons. Some are proprietary which we will not discuss. Others are obvious. For example it is extremely durable. Additionally, we want you to see each cell working and we want you to see how much and how fast the gases are being produced. This also provides a very easy way to see when it needs to be serviced. It is also a conversation piece because; well…it’s just cool!

How often do I need to add the proprietary electrolyte solution?
This will occur about every ~20 hours of operation. When you see it getting close to the red fill line it will require about 2 gallons of water and 1/2 gallon electrolyte solution. You do not have to wait until it gets to that line. You may choose to refill when it gets about halfway to the line. Use this guide like your fuel tank. When it gets less than half it’s always good to refuel.

What affects the electrolyte consumption?
Factors include driving speed, outside temperatures, length of travel, traffic and more. It should last ~3,000 - 4,000 miles traveling long distances at 60 mph. You should plan to service the unit with each oil change, regardless of your driving habits.

Does this affect the manufacturer's warranty of the vehicle?
No, hydrogen is the cleanest burning fuel of all time. In fact, over time, our unit will reduce carbon deposits. The result is a longer lasting and more efficient engine.

What modifications are needed to my engine?
Modifications are non-intrusive and easily reversible. The simple explanation is that a hose is attached to a vacuum line on a gas engine. On a diesel, it will need a small hole after your turbo charger and our air compressor. The wiring is very simple and connects to existing ports.

How does this affect my engines operating temperature?
By including "Browns Gas" in your combustion chamber, your engine temperature will not increase. It will actually decrease slightly.

How safe is your Electrolyzer?
While every precaution has been taken, keep in mind this unit is creating a combustible gas. It is not a play thing. Do not smoke, cause static charges, sparks, or similar near the unit.

In short, use the same precautions that you would when fueling your vehicle.

How safe is your Electrolyte?
In September 2006 NASA had a leak of Potassium Hydroxide aboard the space shuttle. This material is very caustic and caused a smoke like appearance within the shuttle. This gas, if inhaled will not be pleasant. Skin contact with the electrolyte will cause immediate tingling and will eventually will be slightly painful.

NASA announced that this material posed no threat to anyone on the space craft. [the most inconvenient location I would want to be in]

This material is very caustic. It will burn the skin after several minutes of exposure. If exposure occurs, the solution should be washed off with straight water for five minutes, and then washed with soap and water. We include material safety data sheets for you with every order. Again, we believe you should treat it with the respect of gasoline.

Will using this improve the environment?
Yes. The use of "Browns Gas" will improve the overall efficiency of your internal combustion engine, thereby causing a cleaner exhaust and lower fuel consumption.

I live in a cold climate. At what temperature will this freeze?
The temperature at which the electrolyte will freeze is – 36°C. If this occurs you may wish to turn on the vehicle and warm it up for a few minutes. The amperage will thaw the electrolyte before the engine is warm. You also have the option to turn the unit off until the vehicle is moving.

What exactly is your 5 year prorated warranty?
To our knowledge, this is the longest warrantee in the industry. Our estimate is that this unit will last for approximately 10 years. The 5 year prorated warrantee is designed to be very similar to many car batteries. Each year, 20% of the retail value is depreciated with the balance being applied to the purchase of a new electrolyzer.

We have two caveats:
1) Only our electrolyte solution can be used.
2) Do not allow it to run below the red Minimum fill line.

Allowing either of these void the warrantee.

Why do you require the use of your proprietary electrolyte?
Our solution is designed to work in a careful balance with the plates, wiring schematics, and alternator. Any foreign material taking this out of balance will alter its performance significantly and could cause damage to your alternator, electrical system and our electrolyzer.

What happens if I run below the fill line on the unit?
If you permit the fluid level to get below the red line, significant performance issues will arise and the unit could be damaged.

We advise simply turning it off until you have the opportunity to refill. It will cause your engine to go back to its original fuel consumption with no damage being done to our unit.

What is the distribution chamber for?
The primary function is to provide air filtration so any dust or water vapor that could be drawn through the unit will be caught in the chamber and not drawn into the engine.

What do I fill the distribution chamber with, and to what level?
Nothing is actually needed. If something has collected it should be cleaned out when it gets over 1/2 full.

source: http://www.gethydropower.com/faq.html

 

hav not started yet......

but here's a link to keep u guys interested.......

http://www.gethydropower.com/demos.html

http://www.gethydropower.com/press_2006_0918.html My whole truck did not cost so much!! I wonder if they also offer the Brooklyn Bridge for sale.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HWiMg3gGTs&feature=user

hav fun guys.........

 

I think that HHO in a car will not improve fuel efficiency.
HHO is a scam.
They use a tiny bottle of water and only a bubble or two of HHO is produced occasionally.

An American city paid $700.00 each for some HHO gadjets (plus installation cost) that they will try on police cars. They did try some but the cars broke down. The person who sold the devices got 75% as commission because it is a pyramid sales scheme.

The police cars broke down because the HHO caused the engine's computer to make the mixture too lean resulting in better fuel economy, high nitrous oxide pollution (the cars don't pass the emissions test) and burnt pistons.

 

I think that HHO in a car will not improve fuel efficiency.
HHO is a scam.
They use a tiny bottle of water and only a bubble or two of HHO is produced occasionally.

An American city paid $700.00 each for some HHO gadjets (plus installation cost) that they will try on police cars. They did try some but the cars broke down. The person who sold the devices got 75% as commission because it is a pyramid sales scheme.

The police cars broke down because the HHO caused the engine's computer to make the mixture too lean resulting in better fuel economy, high nitrous oxide pollution (the cars don't pass the emissions test) and burnt pistons.

from where u got this nitrous oxide? when u burn brown's gas, u get water?

 

from where u got this nitrous oxide? when u burn brown's gas, u get water?

Forget about "brown's gas" for just a couple of minutes, and think strictly about petroleum.

When the fuel injector is adjusted for better fuel economy, you get nitrous oxide out the tail pipe. You also get a lot of other nasty stuff out the tailpipe - stuff that has been illegal in the US for many years. You also get gunk on the pistons. You also get pre-mature degradation of the rings and seals.

An internal combustion engine is not a toy.

But for folk who want to try anyway, try this: use the oxygen sensor over-ride circuit without the magical brown gas. Measure your fuel economy then!

 

hav u ever build a H2 + O2 generator b4 dismissing it as folly?


nope, right?

I've never built a 1000 mile diameter balloon and flown to Mars by dismissing such as a folly either. Try an internet search on "argumentum ad ignorantiam."

See also "straw man argument," since no one here has decried electrolysis itself. We've only cited electrolysis uses more energy than the burned result generates. (In accordance with the laws of thermodynamics.)

You might also want to run a search on "skeptic," since you claim to be one.

 

if u r so sceptical 'bout it, build one b4 dismissing it as scam...



well, if u r happy paying 4 expensive fossil fuel, do continue paying....

 

if u r so sceptical 'bout it, build one b4 dismissing it as scam...

I'll get started on it right after I get back from Mars in that balloon.

 

no point 4 me 2 continue arguing here....


wish u guys all da best....!

' once people said metal can't fly, but now mankind had been 2 the moon ' - maybe it's a scam also....

 

Numbers? Without numbers it is hearsay. Still haven't seen numbers, just a lot of belief. I can get that in church.

True believers and science don't mix well.

 

It is a belief system and can't be logically dismissed. That is, you cannot prove it is not true (see: Thingmaker3's post), and its proponents fail to realize the burden of proof is on them.

Ten years (or more) is more than enough time for someone to come up with a working model. There are a few reports of improved mileage (not efficiency of the engines per se), but those tests were not conducted in any sort of controlled fashion. Importantly, none of the modified cars were shown to meet pollution standards.

I'll bet there are several contributors to this forum who could increase engine efficiency, if they could work without the constraints of antipollution devices.

John

 

Numbers? Without numbers it is hearsay. Still haven't seen numbers, just a lot of belief. I can get that in church.

True believers and science don't mix well.

so, do u believe in hell and heaven?


i dun really believe such things... show me heaven & hell, then i'll believe...

 

Bill_Marsden,

btw.... do u familiar with circuitry simulation program such as PSpice?