Free Energy!

Discussion in 'General Science' started by Wendy, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Or maybe not, but I'm trying to figure out what the catch is.

    You have a large precision gyroscope. Rig it up on a gimble where as it rotates from the earths rotation (it stands still, the earth spins) you gear it up to a generator. The energy is from the earth's rotation, you could even use it to keep the gyroscope spinning (inject energy).

    What is the down side?

    I wonder how many chicken little's will worry about slowing down the earth. :D
     
  2. tannercollin655

    Member

    Jul 23, 2009
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    It would probably just spin too slow :p

    If you increase its speed using a gear system (1 to a billion ratio :p) the resistance would slow the gyro down and need more energy to keep it going then it would produce.

    Maybe on the moon!!!!!!

    Good idea though Bill!
     
  3. Ratch

    New Member

    Mar 20, 2007
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    Bill_Marsden,

    1) One rotation every 24 hrs.

    2) Precession when you put force on the gimbals to harness the rotational motion.

    tannercollin655,

    No, bad idea. Better to harness the tides and wind caused by the rotation of the earth and the radiation of the sun.

    Ratch
     
  4. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    1> This I knew, but you could have some amazing torque.

    2.> That could be taken care of with strong axials. It's not going going to roll around the floor (well, maybe, if something breaks).

    3.> Does not depend on weather or location.

    It was a thought, if it paid for my air conditioning I'd be happy, and after the initial outlay of cash (which is always an issue for whatever) totally free, indoors (away from prying eyes and government regulation).
     
  5. someonesdad

    Senior Member

    Jul 7, 2009
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    There is no catch -- it's an excellent idea. Unfortunately, it's not a practical idea. You get one revolution per day and you have to figure out how to convert the energy of rotation into a useful form that you can use elsewhere (electrical energy would probably be the most useful). Alas, you'd need to build it on a large scale -- large masses and diameters to get it to turn something at a reasonable speed. Mechanical losses would be a concern, but the cost of materials would be a killer.
     
  6. Ratch

    New Member

    Mar 20, 2007
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    someonesdad,

    No it's not, it's a poor idea. Angular momentum of the gyro has to be conserved. If you change the direction of its angular momentum as you will do if you try to change the direction of the momentum vector, then the gyro will precess as I pointed out before. If you do not let it precess, then it will put a tremendous force on the gyro bearings and create energy wasting heat.

    Don't you have something to say about harvesting the rotational energy the the earth via wind and tides?

    Ratch
     
  7. someonesdad

    Senior Member

    Jul 7, 2009
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    I agree there will be torques and subsequent loads on the bearings, but bearing design is well developed and the speeds involved are very slow.

    It might be something that has to operate intermittently -- low friction mode to get the thing spinning, then a time in which you load it to extract the rotational energy. Some preliminary calculations are needed to estimate an appropriate size. It's gone into my "interesting things to look at when I have time" folder.
     
  8. tannercollin655

    Member

    Jul 23, 2009
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    Has anyone ever seen those wrist exercisers called a powerball??

    You basically get a heavy gyro spinning and then use a wrist movement to accelerate it.

    Maybe instead of just relying on the rotation of the earth to give you energy use it to accelerate another gyro which you take energy off.

    You will need precision built, strong metal parts that would require plenty of lube.

    Search "powerball" on youtube and try to make the wrist movement mechanical...

    Good luck!! Hope you make it on Daily Planet :p
     
  9. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    I did. You missed it. See point #3.
     
  10. steveb

    Senior Member

    Jul 3, 2008
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    Bill, I read this post with interest, and understood your discussion is about whether the idea works in principle. I'm actually still thinking about your idea and am still uncertain if it could work in principle. It seems like it should, since it doesn't violate conservation of energy. However, I kept wondering if you can prevent the gyro from eventually processing as you load the system. I just wasn't sure and then my brain started hurting - so I didn't comment.

    However, today, someone asked a question about the Faraday disk; and, while answering the question, it occurred to me that this device could work for your purposes in principle. The Faraday disk does not need relative motion between a field and conductor since it is based on the Lorentz force. It only requires rotation which is what the earth provides with practically unlimited power and torque, even if at a slow speed.

    One could imagine building very large superconducting magnets to generate a large field and then build a superconducting plate to generate the voltage source with zero source resistance. The system could be miles in diameter. It would be interesting to do the calculations to see just how fast the earth would need to rotate to make this practical.

    The location at the poles is helpful for cooling the superconductors too. :)

    The other interesting thing is that the North Pole has this effect happening right now, in a very small way. The Arctic ocean is salt water (beneath the ice) and is a conductor, while the earths magnetic field is coming in mostly vertically near the pole. There must be a small potential and ion flow going radially in to the North pole. Yeah, I know it is likely an insignificant effect with a half Gauss field from the earth, but it's cool anyway.
     
  11. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    It was just a thought that occurred, with all the other sources of energy coming out I hadn't heard that one mentioned, and as I said, it could be used anywhere on the face of the earth (assuming you could make it work). It would require a strong anchor to the earth, and perhaps the gyro itself could be relatively reasonable in size, say around 2 to 3 meters round. Add another similar size for a generator, and if it generated enough juice it would be practical for most houses.

    Assuming a high torque, slow movement isn't really an issue. We are talking power, not RPM. Conversions in the mechanical world are simpler than in electronics. With an ingenious mechanical linkage, even the precessing of the gyro might be harnessed.

    One of the common fallacies of people trying to use gyros is to generate a straight line force, which from what I can tell is impossible. But using it the way it was designed, that is a different issue.
     
  12. Renesis

    New Member

    Jul 14, 2009
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    Um, im not so shure. I have a strong gut feeling that this device would not work near the ekvator, without any scientific facts to back me up. And to get that high torque, you would need an immencely, but not impossibly, large gyro wheel.

    This is a very interesting out-of-the-box idea. And it is clear that large amounts of energy is available, after all this is what powers most sea currents.
     
  13. rjenkins

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 6, 2005
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    I *think* the precession tends to line up the gyro axis of rotation parallel to the axis of the earth, at which point you no longer get any output torque.

    If you prevent a gyro from precessing, it no longer resists rotation about the other axis.
     
  14. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Any rotation can be harnessed for energy. Precessing is still rotation. I suspect in this case the precession would be in slow motion too.

    On the equator it rotates end over end, on the pole sideways. Both cases it is one rotation every 24 hours.

    It occurs to me where precession would be a problem though, it would try to orient the gyro where it no longer resists rotation. There is an axis in all gyros where this is the case, so it precession would have to be eliminated.
     
  15. borhem

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    Aug 9, 2009
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    thanksssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
     
  16. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Funny, I missed what you said completely, then figured it out later. So you have to have bearings strong enough to resist precession. Having some experience with bearings, this doesn't seem like a big deal.
     
  17. SIcam

    Active Member

    Aug 9, 2008
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    Please post a photo of your prototype and the results of the energy obtained.
     
  18. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Never said I had one, nor implied it. I'm talking theoretical at this point. With all the HHO advocates it would be nice to discuss something that has some chance of working.
     
  19. fanie

    Active Member

    Jan 20, 2007
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    As a matter of interest I was wondering if any of you think there is something like free as in free free energy ?
     
  20. Wendy

    Thread Starter Moderator

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    Solar, Wind, Tides, to name a few. In the western United States and Holland we've been harnessing the wind for odd jobs for a very long time. This planet is awash in energy, but it is mismanaged. It is easier to burn things, wood, oil, coal, which is more concentrated and easier to work with.

    The catch is there is always going to be equipment costs. With wind it was the wood and the labor, nowdays it is a bit more expensive, since electricity is more complicated. That you can never escape.

    Things like hot water though, are still easy in the warm places in the world.

    I mention HHO, this site is a magnet for people who think you can electrolyze water, burn it, and get more energy than you put in. It's almost a religion, and arguing the point is much the same.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2009
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