Follow-up: Seeking Basic Non-electronic Gate Opener Circuit

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by frank1492, Jun 3, 2015.

  1. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    I have attached a photo of the hardware board relating to the relay- activated gate opener circuit which Crutschow, Max and Mike helped me design. I will try it tomorrow.
    Before I do, I want to make absolutely sure of a few things. I have also attached a copy of Crutschow's original circuit diagram with questions noted. Some of these may seem extremely naive, but as I say I want to be absolutely sure.
    I will try the circuit first using the assumption which Crutschow made regarding the motor coil connections (4 leads.) I realize the exact wiring of the motor is still subject to some debate, although I posted a couple actual resistance values a few days ago. (Mike asked for more which I have not yet obtained.)
    It would be a great help to me if someone would address the several questions posed on the diagram, particularly surrounding the transformer wiring, the issue of the COMMON, and whether it would be useful to use two 24vac transformers (which I have), one to supply the coil voltage to the impulse latching relay and the other to supply the coil control voltages Proposed Relay Board.jpg Most Recent gate circuit.jpg to the two power relays which activate the motor.
     
  2. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,002
    3,229
    I think you should make the additional measurements that Mike requested and let us mull on that before you connect anything to the motor.
    Otherwise you might let out the magic smoke.
     
  3. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    LOL. Agreed. But could you still look over the circuit and comment assuming the connections *are* correct based on your assumptions? I wouldn't connect the motor right away, but could still check the 24vac circuit, whether relays were closing as expected, etc. That would be a big help to me as I have a small window of time to get this working. Thanks again. Even if the motor would have to be connected differently, most of my questions posed on the diagram still apply.
    Did you see the resistances I got?
     
  4. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Could this be the motor (PSC)? PSC Reversible Motor.jpg
     
  5. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    The readings I got were wht-brn .5 ohms, red-blu 4.6 ohms. Aren't these consistent with run and start winding values in which case your original circuit assumptions are correct?
     
  6. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,526
    2,369
    The start winding in your drawing is still not powered correctly, only one side has power?
    The two different resistance values indicates that the low resistance winding is dedicated to the run winding the higher resistance the cap/phase shifted winding.
    In post #4 the T5 T8pair would be reversed to reverse direction (or T1-T4).
    Max.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
  7. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,002
    3,229
    To answer your questions on my diagram:

    I see no reason for two transformers.

    Your change to the relay connections on the left is incorrect. You want the two wipers connected together to the hot side (not COM) of the 24VAC.

    Either output of the 24VAC transformer can be considered common (COM). Just be consistent with that designation through the whole circuit.
    Those two COM points are the only ones on my diagram.

    The position of the contacts of both RY3 and RY4 are shown with no power applied to their coils although the circuit does show power to RY3 through limit switch S1. Sorry for any confusion that may have caused. :oops:

    Not sure about the motor wire color codes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
  8. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,526
    2,369
    I assume also the windings are separate and distinct, not connected in any way?
    Max.
     
  9. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,526
    2,369
    I corrected post #6 as I saw I had made a description error.
    Max.
     
  10. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Thank you. I have used one transformer. I believe I already made the correction you noted, and no confusion was caused (in addition to my present confusion...:) I tested the circuit without the motor, but with 115vac applied, and the voltage and resistance measurements looked good. It really seems to be a very simple circuit, further simplified by its symmetry. (I just wish I was better at this.)
    Anyway I was at the gate today and checked the motor: The approximate resistance measurements are: red/brn 5.2, wht/brn 1.5, red/blu 9, wht/blu 5.5, wht/red 5.0, brn/blu 5.0. I feel really dumb, because the motor did have a label on the backside: A.O. Smith 322P711, 1000rpm, 1/2 hp, type FLL. There was also a very small wiring diagram with symbols that were hard to make out, but it is attached. No further info on the brown lead. I'd be interested in your (and others') conclusions, but I am thinking your original circuit assumptions are AO Smith.jpg valid? If not please send a corrected circuit as I will be giving this a test run tomorrow morning.
    Again, thank you (and others) for all your great help! I'll keep you posted.
    Frank
     
  11. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Max: Thank you. Please see my new post regarding the resistances.
     
  12. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,526
    2,369
    From your updated resistance readings it appears to me that it is in fact that the windings are double duty, i.e. same resistance for both. I would say from the readings that white brown form a common connection internally.
    If so then white & brown are common and red and blue each to this common point are the two windings as per the diagram in your previous post.
    Max.
     
  13. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Thanks I assume you mean the post containing the sketch of the circuit which I took off the AO Smith label? So would this new information change Crucschow's original motor connections shown in my post #1? (Please note that he commented on all my notations and I have corrected my mistakes.)
     
  14. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,526
    2,369
    OK, if your motor is the dual duty winding as it appears to be here is the way it is connected and reversed.
    see fig 13.15 power is applied to L2 and either A or B for each direction.
    Max.
     
  15. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Hi Max. I connected the motor up today out of the circuit and this is indeed correct. As for the brown wire, though, I still don't understand as the diagram on the motor shows it disconnected (??) but it was connected to something in the original Allister circuit diagram. If white and brown are common, does that mean that connecting brown to the line would be the same as connecting the white?
    I had to call the electric company again today as once again the line voltage was dropping to nothing when connected to a load (the motor.) All of this due to corrosion in the connections to the pole. So I did not fully test the circuit but will do so tomorrow. Thanks again. Frank
     
  16. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Please note Max' recent posts as well as mine. The internal connections to the motor are now known and have been tested.
     
  17. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    10,526
    2,369
    In the original post the brown appears to be referenced to the 24vac secondary for some reason?
    The white goes to the AC in.
    Max.
     
  18. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,002
    3,229
    If you can post a diagram of exactly how you connected the motor to operate, indicating the wire colors and motor direction (open/close), then I can add that to my schematic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
  19. frank1492

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Dec 7, 2010
    59
    0
    Thanks! White to white 115vac, blu to "Close" (RY4), red to "Open" on your original schematic. (Blu and red could be reversed, not sure. I did some last minute wire reversals.) I am not sure of corresponding motor directions, not at gate site as I write this. (Would you like me to pursue this further?) Brn not connected at all. (See Max.) Bottom line: It works!!!! I am very indebted to you, Max and Mike for your interest in this project. It has saved the gate owner a lot of money and benefits all of us as we can use our original remotes. Equivalent openers run in the $1000-$1500 range. The two power relays were about $18 each at Grainger, and the latching relay was off my old Liftmaster. Add a terminal strip, female slip-ons and a few wire nuts and I'm sure the total parts were less than $50. Repairs are now highly simplified as all components are "off the shelf." The opener is very well built and I see many more years of trouble-free service. Again, thank you all so much!
    I do not have the time to pursue this now, but I might want to consider an add-on to close the gate automatically after 30 seconds or so, a feature which has been lost in this electro-mechanical approach. I am looking at use of a time-delay relay of some sort, hopefully can come up with something without your help, but will ask if I need it. I expect you would find the solution trivial.
    If you or others have further questions, I will monitor this thread for awhile.
    Frank
     
  20. crutschow

    Expert

    Mar 14, 2008
    13,002
    3,229
    Here's my schematic modified to what I think you stated were the motor winding connections.
    Note that I also modified the relay wiring so that RY4 is energized only when the motor is running.

    Gate Relay Diagram2.gif
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2015
Loading...