faxing ???

Discussion in 'Computing and Networks' started by Mathematics!, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Ok , I have this old Dell Dimension 8100 System from around 2003.
    It has a modem card in it BCM V.92 I believe this is a soft modem that would be used for dialup back in the day. But I have Windows XP professional running on it and I just realized that their is fax software that I have just installed using the windows install components with the OS CD.

    What I want to know is if I run a telephone line from the BCM V.92 modem to one of my telephone jacks and use the software to send a fax will it work without any additional hardware? In theory it should unless their is a special modem you need to send the fax down the telephone line?

    I am aware that you cann't use the phone when sending a fax unless you get a second line and dedicate the fax to that line seperately.

    The software say's it allows you to send and recieve fax thru your computer. The only thing that I am shake on is if I need a different modem or hardware addons to make it send the data modulated correctly on the wire. I hope not because I am not willing to buy it.

    Seems that it should work
    here is the link to how to use the software it is pretty straight forward.

    I want to be positive all this will work before I start string telephone wire thru the walls ...etc etc.
    Not any good info is on the net that talks about how these modems work do they modulate analog or digitally like PWM or analog FM or analog AM , what carry frequency ,...etc etc

    Also just curious what the protocal for sending fax data down a phone line would be??

    I know caller id info is send between the first/second 90volts ac 20 hz ring superimpose digitally onto the analog 20 hz wave using PWM.

    I am assuming something similar with fax but maybe a little more complicated.

    Realistically I am think dialup modems are just faxing the internet data over to you.
    Thanks for the help.
    I will stop rambleing.

    this link is almost convincing me that it will work "it say's V.92 data/fax/ on the page half way down.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2009
  2. AlexR

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2008
    I've never used the Windows fax program but I see no reason why it wouldn't work as long as the modem is a data/fax model (and most are).

    Fax transmission uses the CCITT Group3 fax protocol which specifies both the coding scheme and the transmission protocol. Unfortunately CCITT charge for copies of their standards so you won't find it on line but there are numerous sites that give a potted description of the group3 standard. Do a google or take a look at http://www.appsig.com/products/tn048.htm
  3. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Is their anything I can check in device manager for you to be 100% sure it is a data/fax modem?

    Second question
    How are these modems working are they analog or digital modulation.
    What's their carrier frequency do they get assigned a frequency by the telephone company. Like is their a special DSLAM modem or headend that gives them an upstream and downstream frequency or do all these modem's use the same frequency but sence their on seperate lines (point to point it doesn't mater if they use a standard frequency for all modems since their on seperate lines anyway not shared network like cable)

    I guess I don't know how dialup works thought it was just modulating data on the voice signal 20hz to 20khz. Is it modulated digitally or just like FM or AM modulation.

    Also with these modems are they full duplex mean can they recieve data at the same time they are sending data?
  4. AlexR

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2008
    You could try connecting to the modem using hyperterm.
    Make sure you can talk to the modem by issuing a wake-up and AT command "+++AT"
    The modem should respond with an "ok"
    If that works issue command "AT+FCLASS=2" this puts the modem into fax mode. If the modem responds with "ok" it is capable of working in fax mode.

    Data rates, carrier frequencies and modulation schemes are set by the various standards used for data transmission. During the set-up phase of a fax call the machines/modems use the V21 standard which sends data at 300bps data using FSK modulation, a binary zero is represented by 1850 Hz, and a binary one is represented by 1650 Hz. Once the set-up phase is complete and the two machines/modems have agreed on what features will be used the actual fax data is sent using the V29 standard which uses a complex form of phase and amplitude modulation and a data rate of up to 19200bps.
  5. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Where in the hyperterminal program do you do this?
    And how ???

    I am assuming you mean the hyperterm program under communications which is under Accessories under the startup menu.

    Thanks for the help on the modulation stuff

    under device manager I queried the V.92 modem
    I got this in the log
    Code ( (Unknown Language)):
    2. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.343 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\tapisrv.dll, Version 5.1.2600  
    3. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.343 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\unimdm.tsp, Version 5.1.2600  
    4. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.343 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\unimdmat.dll, Version 5.1.2600  
    5. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.343 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\uniplat.dll, Version 5.1.2600  
    6. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\modem.sys, Version 5.1.2600  
    7. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\modemui.dll, Version 5.1.2600  
    8. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - File: C:\WINDOWS\system32\mdminst.dll, Version 5.1.2600  
    9. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - Modem type: BCM V.92 56K Modem
    10. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - Modem inf path: oem4.inf
    11. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - Modem inf section: BCM4211.Modem
    12. 10-27-2009 02:17:14.359 - Matching hardware ID: pci\ven_14e4&dev_4212&subsys_00011028
    13. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.937 - 115200,8,N,1, ctsfl=1, rtsctl=2
    14. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.937 - Initializing modem.
    15. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.953 - Send: AT<cr>
    16. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.953 - Recv: AT<cr>
    17. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.953 - Command Echo
    18. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.953 - Recv: <cr><lf>OK<cr><lf>
    19. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.953 - Interpreted response: OK
    20. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.968 - Send: AT &F E0 V1 &D2 &C1 S95=47 S0=0<cr>
    21. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.968 - Recv: AT &F E0 V1 &D2 &C1 S95=47 S0=0<cr>
    22. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.968 - Command Echo
    23. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.984 - Recv: <cr><lf>OK<cr><lf>
    24. 10-27-2009 02:17:17.984 - Interpreted response: OK
    25. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.000 - Send: ATS7=60S30=0L0M1\N3%C3&K3B0N1\J1X3<cr>
    26. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.000 - Recv: <cr><lf>OK<cr><lf>
    27. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.000 - Interpreted response: OK
    28. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.000 - Waiting for a call.
    29. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.015 - Send: at+vcid=1<cr>
    30. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.031 - Recv: <cr><lf>OK<cr><lf>
    31. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.031 - Interpreted response: OK
    32. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.046 - Send: ATS0=0<cr>
    33. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.046 - Recv: <cr><lf>OK<cr><lf>
    34. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.046 - Interpreted response: OK
    35. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.140 - Session Statistics:
    36. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.140 -                Reads : 65 bytes
    37. 10-27-2009 02:17:18.140 -                Writes: 0 bytes
    38. ATQ0V1E0 - OK
    39. AT+GMM - H.324 video-ready rev. 1.0
    40. AT+FCLASS=? - 0,1,2,2.0,8
    42. AT+GCI? - +GCI:B5
    43. AT+GCI=? - +GCI:(00,04,07,09,0A,0D,0F,14,16,19,1A,1B,20,25,26,27,2B,2D,2E,31,33,35,36,37,3C,3D,3E,46,49,4F,50,51,52,53,54,57,58,59,61,62,64,68,69,6C,70,73,77,7B,7C,7E,7F,82,83,84,85,87,88,89,8A,8B,8C,8E,98,9C,9F,A0,A1,A3,A5,A6,A9,AE,B3,B4,B5,B7,B8,BB,BC)
    44. ATI1 - F2E1
    45. ATI2 - OK
    46. ATI3 - BCM V.92 56K Modem Version 3.4.19
    47. ATI4 - Built on 05/16/2002 18:19:31
    48. ATI5 - B1
    49. ATI6 - Link Information:
    50.        Chars Received       : 0000000000
    51.        Chars Sent           : 0000000000
    52.        Frames Received      : 0000000000
    53.        Frames Sent          : 0000000000
    54.        Frames Retransmitted : 00000
    55.        Frames Rejected      : 00000
    56.        Protocol        : NONE
    57.        Compression     : NONE
    58.        Reason For Last Disconnect: Connection Timeout (code 44)
    59. ATI7 - PCI
    60. ATQ0V1E0 - OK
    61. AT+GMM - H.324 video-ready rev. 1.0
    62. AT+FCLASS=? - 0,1,2,2.0,8
    64. AT+GCI? - +GCI:B5
    65. AT+GCI=? - +GCI:(00,04,07,09,0A,0D,0F,14,16,19,1A,1B,20,25,26,27,2B,2D,2E,31,33,35,36,37,3C,3D,3E,46,49,4F,50,51,52,53,54,57,58,59,61,62,64,68,69,6C,70,73,77,7B,7C,7E,7F,82,83,84,85,87,88,89,8A,8B,8C,8E,98,9C,9F,A0,A1,A3,A5,A6,A9,AE,B3,B4,B5,B7,B8,BB,BC)
    66. ATI1 - F2E1
    67. ATI2 - OK
    68. ATI3 - BCM V.92 56K Modem Version 3.4.19
    69. ATI4 - Built on 05/16/2002 18:19:31
    70. ATI5 - B1
    71. ATI6 - Link Information:
    72.        Chars Received       : 0000000000
    73.        Chars Sent           : 0000000000
    74.        Frames Received      : 0000000000
    75.        Frames Sent          : 0000000000
    76.        Frames Retransmitted : 00000
    77.        Frames Rejected      : 00000
    78.        Protocol        : NONE
    79.        Compression     : NONE
    80.        Reason For Last Disconnect: Connection Timeout (code 44)
    81. ATI7 - PCI
    Nothing was connected to the rj11 jack when I queried it
    Maybe this helps ?
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  6. AlexR

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 16, 2008
    That looks ok, the AT+FCLASS query came back with a list of options that includes fax option (AT+FCLASS=2) so your modem should work fine with the fax program.
  7. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    One further step - the fax document is an image file, not a Word document file - http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3250.html

    The extended TIFF format may be overkill, but the fax standard wants a file in TIFF format, not .DOC.
  8. StayatHomeElectronics

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2008
    I use a fax from my Windows XP PC quite frequently. The fax software that I have, PhoneTools which came with the PC, lets you attach files and it takes care of the conversion into the faxing image. There is a huge list of documents you can attach and .DOC is definitely one of them...
  9. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    That's better than having to scan documents into a TIFF file...
  10. blueroomelectronics

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 22, 2007
    Since it's a winmodem you'll need drivers for it that support the OS. You can buy a real modem cheap enough on eBay.
  11. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    I am not so worried about having it in the right file format.
    Since if the windows fax component software works it will be ok.
    Since in it they let you create cover pages and fax pages ,...etc

    If not I always know I can convert them first. Or get other freeware to do it. Thanks for the heads up though.

    So the question is how to put the modem into AT+FCLASS=2 fax mode
    Would the software do this for me behind the scene. If so then I am all set.

    If not how do you change modes and other properties for the modem.
    I have looked under device manager but I don't know where you can specify it only query it.

  12. blueroomelectronics

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 22, 2007
    Does it show up as a COM port? (see your device manager)
  13. StayatHomeElectronics

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2008
    The PhoneTools program that was preloaded on my XP machine takes care of all of the setup. Just push the FAX button and it has you fill out all the information for a cover sheet. Attach a file if you want and then hit SEND.

    I do nothing else. It even allows you to use your computer to make/receive calls, when not faxing of course, and act as an answering machine. The software does all of the setup...
  14. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Well in device manager it shows up under modems

    When I go to the modem properties tab of the V.92 modem
    I see port: com3
    But under the general tab I see PCI slot 2 (bus 2, device 1, function 0 )

    Hope this helps.

    Everybody I have heard from on different forums thinks it should work if I just run a telephone wire from the modem to a phone jack.

    Hope what I gave you gives it a 100% yes answer for the functionality of a fax and to place/recieve phone calls with it.

    Remember it is from a dell dimension 8100 system.

    Also I just ran a wire from the V.92 modem to a phone jack used hyperterminal to place a phone call.
    It works but I hear the person talking inside the modem how can I get this sound to go thru a computers soundcard and out to the speakers as well as use the mic port to talk back to???
    I am stuck with the phone calling it works but ......... how do you talk back????

    As for the faxing I am going to try send/recieveing to a friend when they get a chance.
    Everything up to this point leads me to believe it will work!
    Cross my fingers
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  15. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    fax works I can send and recieve faxes to my computer!

    Wondering how I can send my V.92 modem speaker sound to my sound card speakers?
    And how I can use the mic and send the sound input to the modem?
  16. BMorse

    Senior Member

    Sep 26, 2009

    On the back of the modem is there a couple of phono jacks??
  17. Mathematics!

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Jul 21, 2008
    Yes their are 2 RJ11 jacks one with a phone icon on it. But their is no other ports/outputs for audio on this card so I cann't run the audio from the V.92 modem to the sound card.

    Maybe their is some way to play sound to the sound card from the com3 port? Which is what the V.92 modem is set to.

    I can hear the guy's voice thru the modem speakers but cann't responed to him.
  18. BMorse

    Senior Member

    Sep 26, 2009
    You can mod the modem card :cool:: You can remove the onboard speaker, (which is most likely already driven by an LM386 type of audio IC), get a pair of old head phones, cut the connector off, with enough wire left to run the wire to the back of the pc once you are done, solder both red and white colored conductors to the positive side of where the speaker was, and connect the silver (shield) wire from the headphone plug to the ground where the speaker use to connect, once you have this done, place everything back together, and run the added plug out the back of the PC, and plug it into your PC's sound card audio in jack, now whenever there is sound out of the modem you should hear it through your speakers... (Even that horrible dial up squelch you hear from the modem when connecting to other fax machines ;).....)

    as for talking to the other person.... pick up the handset of your phone..:p

    actually there is a way you can "inject" sound into the modems output.... I will have to dig up my schematic for my "music on hold" circuit where I injected the sound from my sound card right into the modems output.... this was early 90's so it might take a while.......

    Actually I found a similar Audio injection circuit>>>http://www.solorb.com/elect/phone/tap/index.html

    My .02
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  19. StayatHomeElectronics

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 25, 2008
    Have you looked under the Control Panel for the Sound, Speech and Audio Devices? I have the option of using the Sound Card or Modem for sound inputs and outputs.
  20. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
    On the modem card itself, there should be a connector similar to that for the audio out of the CD player. This can be connected with a jumper to the line in on the sound portion of motherboard, or sound card if system is pretty old.

    The voice/fax programs from the mid-late 90's and early 2k had voicemail/answering machine abilities when hooked up correctly inside with the audio wires, in addition to sending faxes.