I have a friend that also developed his own system at that time. His method of implementation was orders of magnitude faster in speed than Windows 1.0-3.1

Remember the Mac was introduced in 1984, 11 years before Win 95.

Yes, I definitely remember that date because the Mac innovation (whether perceived or real) was a major breakthrough. Windows 1.0 was out soon after the Mac, but failed to come close in capability. Even Windows 3.1 in the early 90's was pretty bad, based on my memory and I was still using DOS at that time despite the 640 K barrier. I went directly from DOS to Win 95, cursing at every turn. After using unix and X-windows in school, the whole mess seemed very amateurish to me. I just don't know how the business world was so eager to go down that path.

 

Xerox did it first on the Star system. I attended one seminar presented by Adele Goldberg and rushed back to my lab to implement a similar system. I copied those ideas and had it running on a DG Nova before the Apple Lisa came out. (We were doing CAD and PCB layouts with a mouse, menus and icons before the IBM PC was born.) Meanwhile MS was still plodding along with the old Windows OS. It was not until MS Windows 95 came out that there was any resemblance to the Apple Mac. Remember the Mac was introduced in 1984, 11 years before Win 95.

But the apple mac didn't resemble windows at all at that time. It was an all in one unit with a 5 inch black and white screen. Had a friend buy one and we all couldn't stop laughing at him. Sure it had a lil better resolution then the 2e and 2c, but black and white? and a 5 inch screen? At that point I just laughed and didn't look at macs for a good long while.

 

Sorry, but MS stole windows from Apple.

 

Sorry, but MS stole windows from Apple.

And Apple stole it from Rank Xerox

 

It is a fact that Xerox was first, but they (the CEO mostly) had the not invented here syndrome and missed making billions. Apple saw the advantages was definitely second long before M/S, and tried to sue M/S for Windows. They lost because it wasn't their invention either.

Apple didn't invent the tablet, but they did combine a bunch of existing inventions into one package, such as the touch screen. They also made it a point to make it thin as possible, to the point that it is a detriment to the design. They also do not want to use standard interfaces, choosing to make their fans buy theirs (again to the detriment of functionality). They do care about quality, which takes them firmly out of the realm of Chinese junk.

I remember the computer standards wars. It is ludicrous that we are still fighting this battle, USB, thumb drives, and SD cards are here to stay for a very long while.

I am not a fan of Apple, mostly due to the fact they want to control everything about their products. IBM clones may not be perfect, but they are hard core standards, and controlled by no one. Their design has been polished to a high degree, while Apple has had to accommodate these standards in the long haul.

Apple keeps M/S honest. If it weren't for Apple, M/S may have been broken up like the telephone company. How many people remember the O/S monopoly suits and their settlements?

I think M/S may have finally made a mistake by tying their O/S to only really new hardware, this gives Linux a chance to compete big time. XP had minimum standards, but within reason they made it a point to have drivers for any reasonable accessory, as Win98SE had done before it. Only time will tell if it is my bias or reality showing. I have a garage full of old computer parts.

 

Did Steve Jobs steal windows from Xerox?

http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple-and-xerox-parc

 

Interesting, but the article doesn't dispute anything I said. The fact Xerox was there first is firmly documented. It is also why M/S didn't have to pay Apple a mint for the patent. The fact is, the Xerox managers were idiots. I don't think anyone is arguing that. Jobs didn't steal it, Xerox gave it away.

You do not have to patent something to deny other people patents. As with the waterbed and periscope, writers documented their ideas, and when other inventors tried to patent them they were denied due to it being prior art.

 

Did Steve Jobs steal windows from Xerox?

http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2012-03-22/apple-and-xerox-parc

It has been made some documentaries about this. With the people involved on both sides. It came up that the leading scientists at Palo Alto Research Center was not very keen on letting the people from Apple in. He went to his supervisor. And said something like this. I can not allow this unless you order me to do so. Well the rest is history. It is perhaps not correct to say that Apple stole the concept. As they were invited. But it is no doubt that Apple picked up many ideas from the trip to Palo Alto Research Center.

 

I am not a fan of Apple, mostly due to the fact they want to control everything about their products.

This is the biggest reason I've never owned an Apple product, despite their supposed superiority. I opt for the open architecture that allows me to experiment, exapand and adapt my systems. I've also not used any MS OS after XP, either at work or home, since XP does a beatuful job for everything I need to do, and I am aware of some of the issues running my design software under newer OS's.

Seems that users who want a 'turnkey' system adopt the Apple brand, and those who want to have ultimate control adopt Linnux. In the middle are people like me who want some control but dont' want to have to p*ss around with everything.

 

Seems that users who want a 'turnkey' system adopt the Apple brand, and those who want to have ultimate control adopt Linnux. In the middle are people like me who want some control but dont' want to have to p*ss around with everything.

That is a pretty good summary in my view. This highlights the fact that there is a choice involved and that the Apple solution is a sensible solution for achieving certain goals. It terms of market share, there are a lot of people (not just non-techincal people) that like a turnkey solution. Many of these people recognize that time is money and life is too short to waste time being non-productive.

I'm forced to use XP at work, and I admit that, for my purposes, it is a good and stable system, although it was a long time coming.

If I needed ultimate control with a high level OS, then I'd use an open source unix system. However, typically ultimate control is sufficient with a processor and my own code, particularly with real-time control systems that don't need a full OS.

But, when it comes to a total solution for myself and my family, I just don't have time to be the family IT guy solving the problems of 5 people. Even if I had the time, I'd rather do other things. After all, I became and engineer and not an IT expert for a reason, and my other free time I use to get away from technology and problem solving. Apple, works without effort, and (for me) puts the fun back into using a computer.

 

This is the biggest reason I've never owned an Apple product, despite their supposed superiority. I opt for the open architecture that allows me to experiment, exapand and adapt my systems. I've also not used any MS OS after XP, either at work or home, since XP does a beatuful job for everything I need to do, and I am aware of some of the issues running my design software under newer OS's.

Seems that users who want a 'turnkey' system adopt the Apple brand, and those who want to have ultimate control adopt Linnux. In the middle are people like me who want some control but dont' want to have to p*ss around with everything.

I stuck with WinXP for the long haul but with my new powertop I was sold on Win 7. It works really well, very little bugs, and turn off the graphic bells and whistles and its pretty dang fast. I know WIN ME and VISTA are horrible jokes, and WIN 7 was too for about a year or so, but they finally have it to where XP is. So try it out if you get a chance, you just might like it like me. And I hated it when I first used it a couple years ago for clients.

 

But, when it comes to a total solution for myself and my family, I just don't have time to be the family IT guy solving the problems of 5 people. Even if I had the time, I'd rather do other things. After all, I became and engineer and not an IT expert for a reason, and my other free time I use to get away from technology and problem solving. Apple, works without effort, and (for me) puts the fun back into using a computer.

I'd agree with that if it was for my kids and wife and such. Apples system is just too limited for tech business or stuff like that though so if I'm gonna use my computer for work, I need a PC.

One other issue I've had with Apple is when they break. All the macbook pro's I've seen break had to be shipped off and took 6-8 weeks to get returned. I dunno about the desktops but I did see one guy droping of a "?G4?" at compusa and it was one of the metal onese. Looked like he was about to break his back carrying it in. I told my friend who recycles electronics and he said he knows the case on that model is like 30lb alone. He said they sell em and ship em out but even packed well like 25% come back damaged in shipping because of the weight. But repairs are another drawback I saw. When my computer breaks I need it back in under an hour. I can do that with a PC, I can't with an Apple.

 

Apples system is just too limited for tech business or stuff like that though so if I'm gonna use my computer for work, I need a PC.

I agree this is a big problem and it is what kept me away from Apple for years. Seven years ago, I just decided I was going to switch. I was eventually able to get all of my required engineering software on a Mac. But, that's just me. I expect that not everyone will be able to do this yet.

One other issue I've had with Apple is when they break. All the macbook pro's I've seen break had to be shipped off and took 6-8 weeks to get returned. I dunno about the desktops but I did see one guy droping of a "?G4?" at compusa and it was one of the metal onese. Looked like he was about to break his back carrying it in. I told my friend who recycles electronics and he said he knows the case on that model is like 30lb alone. He said they sell em and ship em out but even packed well like 25% come back damaged in shipping because of the weight. But repairs are another drawback I saw. When my computer breaks I need it back in under an hour. I can do that with a PC, I can't with an Apple.

OK, now you are talking about real issues and decisions you've made based on trade-offs. This is different than saying Apple is just a label and making trash products. I think the real issue is if you need to do a warranty repair, because then you can't do it yourself and you are locked into their process. Once you are out of warranty, repairs are easy to do yourself. You can order parts online and look up the repair instructions on youtube.

Personally, repairs have not been an issue for me. With my family we've bought 8 laptops and 2 desktops. The only problems have been 2 hard-drive failures which were easy to replace using youtube video instructions. I also cracked the screen on my MacBook pro when my seatbelt snapped back and hit the screen. I could have repaired it myself, again with youtube video, but I decided to buy another and use the broken one as a desktop PC.

A nice thing about Apple is their TimeMachine backup system. Using a cheap backup hard drive you maintain a complete backup of your system at all times with a desktop and with a laptop, you can use the wireless backup that would automatically kick in whenever you are at home (or work). When you repair or buy a new computer, you just reload your entire system and you are up and running again with all programs and files. With PC based system, a major repair or a new purchase implies quite a bit of time to reload all software and restoration of files will happen only if you have implemented a proper backup system, and even then you are likely to lose your latest files unless you are very dilligent.

No computer brand is going to cover you in all cases. Drop your laptop computer down some stairs and see if you are back up and running in an hour.

 

I'm sure I could. My friend owns a computer/electronics recycler. They have 1000's of laptops they buy in bulk from corportations and everywhere else. They sell what they can and recycle what they can. But PC parts are very easy for me to get. Far beyond what you could get at any store. As far as a desktop yah I could easily drop it down my stairs and have it back up in under an hour with just compusa or bestbuy.

 

I'm not particularly a fan of Apple, although their desktop PCs are solid machines and usually high spec.
Here's a partial list of my gripes, some are historical and may have been fixed.
One button mice.
One button mice where the whole top of the mouse was the button.
Before MacOS X they would crash all the time (and there was no way short of pulling the power cord to reboot them). I used to work in a lab with over 100 of them and someone would be walking around all the time rebooting the dead ones.
Lack of customization, I remember in the early days of DVD writers when they were about £300 and the discs cost about £20 each, you couldn't order a top end Mac without one.
CD / DVD drives with a flap over them (covering the eject button) so they can't be ejected without clicking something in a menu. Also prevents using the little hole to eject a disc when you have turned it off.
Non standard connectors, forcing you to buy Apple monitors, etc.

 

I'm sure I could.

Your screen is cracked. - Your hard drive is damaged. - Your plastic case is cracked, and the PC board is cracked, but you will be fixed in an hour? I'm surprised. You can probably reload all of your software in one hour. But, if you can track down all the right parts and actually fix it that fast, - that is truly amazing.

I"m not that impressive, but I can run over to the Mac Store, plop down $1000, come home and bootup with my TimeMachine backup all in one hour. A totally smashed laptop is not worth my time, and I'd consider the $1000 price tag suitable punishment for being stupid enough to drop my computer down the stairs.

 

The laptops we had in the navy were pretty badass. I don't remember what they were, but they were MILSPEC, supposedly rated to be thrown down stairs and doused with saltwater while running under the hood of an overheating car. The screen had some sort of redundant feature where you could shoot holes in it with a handgun, and apart from the missing portion, the rest of with would continue to work. They ran WIN XP, and the preformance was pretty sucky - all effort was put into making it rugged, and not so much a high performer. Cost >3500$ I believe.

 

Your screen is cracked. - Your hard drive is damaged. - Your plastic case is cracked, and the PC board is cracked, but you will be fixed in an hour? I'm surprised. You can probably reload all of your software in one hour. But, if you can track down all the right parts and actually fix it that fast, - that is truly amazing.

I"m not that impressive, but I can run over to the Mac Store, plop down $1000, come home and bootup with my TimeMachine backup all in one hour. A totally smashed laptop is not worth my time, and I'd consider the $1000 price tag suitable punishment for being stupid enough to drop my computer down the stairs.

May be 2 or 3 but I usually don't throw my laptop down stairs so I think I'd be more looking at a LCD or a DVD drive from normal damage. But I think thats better then saying your repair option is to just go buy another laptop. PC has about 100 different software backup systems. Some online so you don't need and extra HD. But potato potatoe in the end repairs are a factor in the PC vs MAC issues. What about if you break your macbook and have to have another ASAP to finish a huge job and today just happens to be the launch of the iphone5? Then what yah gonna do? I'm just messing with you, I did see a documentary that said APPLE really damaged their rep and computer following when they started to disband the MAC clubs and software parties. They say this was a really big draw and why the early 80's apple did so well. But I guess apple got mad and didn't like people developing thier own stuff and dancing to their own beat so they shut em all down.

 

The laptops we had in the navy were pretty badass. I don't remember what they were, but they were MILSPEC, supposedly rated to be thrown down stairs and doused with saltwater while running under the hood of an overheating car. The screen had some sort of redundant feature where you could shoot holes in it with a handgun, and apart from the missing portion, the rest of with would continue to work. They ran WIN XP, and the preformance was pretty sucky - all effort was put into making it rugged, and not so much a high performer. Cost >3500$ I believe.

Yah I looked at theses but the cost vs specs just weren't worth it.

 

Yah I looked at theses but the cost vs specs just weren't worth it.

Right, they're not worth it for anybody who has to pay their own money.