Electronic Weight Watchers

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
If you start weight training say 3 times every week. You will see something quite fast, already after 6 to 8 weeks. Weight training shapes up the body. Giving the illusion that more fat was lost than what actually shows on the scale. Tight and toned muscle takes up less space than loose, flabby muscle mass.
This is a rule of thumb that applies very broadly. Most fitness programs target 12 weeks because that is where anything (again, speaking broadly) that is done about every other day generally approaches an asymptote, with a significant fraction of the change occurring in about half that time.

When my dad became a body builder back in the 50s he said that twelve weeks made a huge difference. When I got serious about my aerobic ability when I was 18 it took right at 12 weeks to go from not being able to jog half a mile to doing 3 miles nonstop in about 26 minutes. And that's where things stayed unless I really up'ed the effort. My dad said the same thing -- with roughly the same amount of effort that he started at he could maintain the changes that he achieved in the first twelve weeks, but to make significant progress beyond that required a higher level of effort.

At this stage of my life I am not looking for the kind of high-performance in my fitness that I might have always dreamed of. I know that there are people that start marathon or Ironman type training in their 50s, but I've concluded that I don't have the desire to put in that kind of effort. But I'm also convinced that what I can reasonably achieve in 12 weeks at a modest level of effort is so far beyond where I am now that it is a worthy goal. I would like to get to the point where I can ride a bike on ten-mile long rides, jog three miles, and fly a kite with my daughter (and generally be active with her). On a more ambitious note I would like to get so that I can hike Colorado's 14'ers (at least a few of them) with my family and perhaps take up my karate training (which I really enjoyed and got pretty got at -- when I was 16-19 years old!). I don't care about ever competing again, but if I could gain the kind of flexibility that I had then (with expectations toned down for what is reasonable for a 50 year old), it would be wonderful. If I do get my weight down to where it is feasible to take up karate again, I plan to put in a reasonable amount of effort and accept the results that that level of effort produces.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
I started my diet a couple of days after this thread started. I lost 15lbs the first week, and then for this past week I've lost zero. The first week roughly matched what I expected, according the numbers; Calories in Vs. calories out, and 3500 calories in a pound of fat. The second week apparently is proof of perpetual motion. I've been wearing the heart rate monitor 24/7 and consistently been burning (according to the HRM) >4000 calories per day while consuming <1000 calories per day, and haven't lost a single pound. I guess my doctor was right when he said (regarding dieting & weight loss): "It's complicated; I don't understand it, and I don't think anybody really does - some claim to, but their claims contradict other's who also claim to. But what most experts agree on, is that it isn't as simple as calories-in-calories-out."

How can it not be that simple? It's supposed to be science! (that's not a literal question requiring an answer - just a show of frustration)
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
Your body is fighting it. It is a survival mechanism. Metabolism is also a variable.

I regularly stalled for a week or two. I would engage in a one time extra effort to start things up again, meaning exercise. Once started it would tend to continue until it stalled again, a couple of weeks or months later.

My theory is metabolism. You have to force it to move. Right now I feel my metabolism has sped up, but I need to get back into the swing of exercise to keep it up.

Accept that it is going to happen occasionally, and try not to get frustrated. I think the frustration is the real enemy, it is what gets us to quit.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
Yes I'm well aware of "plateaus" as they say. I know I just have to keep at it, and I will. I will get through it, no problem. It just seems counter intuitive that you could maintain the same weight while in an aggressive caloric deficit.
 

Thread Starter

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
Bad strantor!

Not only does metabolism change when you put it into starvation mode, the efficiency of the intestines is variable. Your body is now sucking every calorie it can get out of your food and your metabolism is refusing to waste a cent. Besides that, you did not practice learning a diet that you can sustain for the next ten years.

Try throwing some protein in there every morning. That's the only trick I know to get your metabolism to start up.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
Bad strantor!

Not only does metabolism change when you put it into starvation mode, the efficiency of the intestines is variable. Your body is now sucking every calorie it can get out of your food and your metabolism is refusing to waste a cent. Besides that, you did not practice learning a diet that you can sustain for the next ten years.

Try throwing some protein in there every morning. That's the only trick I know to get your metabolism to start up.
I am making sure to get enough protein. I make sure that everything I eat has protein. I want to minimize muscle loss.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
One of the reasons for plateaus, or even gaining weight, is that your body assumes that the calorie deficit is short term and so keeps the size of the fat cells that are being emptied the same by replacing the fat with water. Since water is more dense than fat, your weight can actually increase. But at some point, it gives up and dumps the water and you get a "woosh" and drop five or so pounds in one day.

The initial high weight loss on any kind of a ketogenic or low carb diet is mostly due to the body switching from glucose burning to ketone burning. That seems to require a different electrolyte balance in the blood which, in turn, requires a different amount of retained fluid in the body. That's also why, when you fall of the wagon, you see a huge increase in weight, much more than can be accounted for by calories, as your body goes back to glucose burning and needs the prior fluid balance.
 

THE_RB

Joined Feb 11, 2008
5,438
I started my diet a couple of days after this thread started. I lost 15lbs the first week, and then for this past week I've lost zero. ...
Is that right? You lost FIFTEEN pounds in the first week? :eek:

Read back earlier in the thread I recommended losing ONE pound per week.

The body has closed loop mechanisms regading fat loss. Tryin to lose too much weight too quickly is the number one mistake people make. You upset all the feedback mechanisms and your whole body goes haywire. Next you will get the physical/hormonal depression, weakness, trouble sleeping and illness attacks.

One pound a week! One pound a week! (repeat as a mantra). :)
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
23,415
Problem is, even at my low, I vary 5 pounds in a day. I aimed for 1-2 pounds per week, and modulated accordingly with diet and exercise. With the variation I'm talking about it can be hard to measure with the signal to noise ratio, so I measure when I get up most mornings.
 

Thread Starter

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
Right. First leap out of bed is when to measure.
However, I find that there is no point in measuring every day. As long as I'm down 3 pounds a month, I call it success.

PS, went to the doc today and found there are 2 scales in the building, they are about 12 pounds different from each other, and each has a current validation certificate.:confused:

No matter. I have my home scale calibrated to the one on the east side of the building.
 

Miss Kelly

Joined Nov 9, 2013
6
Wow. I haven't been here in a while, and just found this thread. I think I need to put it on my daily reading list.

I had steroid injections in my back over the summer, and just recently did a month of physical therapy for my back. I wiuld have preferred more, but finances dictated otherwise.

Anyway, I'd like to jump on the healthier choices, healthier body bandwagon here. I'd love to look like my avatar, but that's my nine year old granddaughter, so it's probably not happening. But maybe, just maybe, checking in here will help me with my accountability.

Miss Kelly
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
Well, it's been three weeks now and it has not been without it's complications. But I was off insulin for a week. I'm back on it now because my doc pulled me off of all of my other diabetic drugs (metformin and Victoza). But even so, my sugars only seemed to go up to the 180 to 200 range and now I'm walking them back down -- slowly -- with insulin. Our plan is to use just insulin and let me taper off it naturally as my weight comes down.

I'm also off the heart pressure meds completely and my blood pressures are running between 115/75 and 120/82. We'll see if that holds.

In three weeks I have lost 28 pounds. There is a real chance that I will lose close to forty pounds in the first thirty days. I'm forcing myself not to get over-optimistic about what I will lose per month in the next two to three months. I've seen sites (and I'm talking the sites of actual bariatric surgical centers, including the Mayo clinic) that claim that the weight loss I'm seeing is quite normal. For instance, the University of Michigan Medical School's Adult Bariatric Surgery Center states, "The average weight loss following gastric bypass surgery is approximately 5-15 pounds per week for the first 2 or 3 months with a gradual tapering off to about 1-2 pounds per week after the first 6 months or so."

If I can average on the bottom end of that for the next two months, that would be another forty-five pounds from where I am, which would put me at 260 lbs.

It would sure make for a nice summer -- hopefully one in which I can really get out and get some decent exercise going.
 

t06afre

Joined May 11, 2009
5,934
Wow. I haven't been here in a while, and just found this thread. I think I need to put it on my daily reading list.

I had steroid injections in my back over the summer, and just recently did a month of physical therapy for my back. I wiuld have preferred more, but finances dictated otherwise.

Anyway, I'd like to jump on the healthier choices, healthier body bandwagon here. I'd love to look like my avatar, but that's my nine year old granddaughter, so it's probably not happening. But maybe, just maybe, checking in here will help me with my accountability.

Miss Kelly
Weight exercises may be good for your back. And the good thing about weight training is that age does not matter. Regardless of age weight exercising will give results. And you will also get more energy for important things in life.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
I'm starting to come off my plateau; went from 190 to 185 over the weekend. I checked my blood pressure; in my left arm (where I usually measure) I showed appreciable improvement: 125/72. In my right arm however, I'm still up at 138/82. That has me a little worried; google tells me that can indicate arterial blockage at worst and increased risk of future heart problems at best. If I still have uneven pressures in 2 months at my follow-up with my new doc, I'll see what he has to say about it.
 

Thread Starter

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
I just went through a learning process that caused me to find out it's a fool's errand to try to measure your own blood pressure with the standard, "pump it yourself" blood pressure cuff. After 30 days of apparently random results, a nurse told me that's one of the lessons in nursing school.

You can use the devices that pump up their own pressure and listen to the sound for you.
 

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
6,782
You can use the devices that pump up their own pressure and listen to the sound for you.
That's what I'm using. It's cheap, and agrees with my doctor. There's a tiny air compressor that sounds like a 30sec long fart as it inflates the cuff, and then spits out your blood pressure.

That reminds me; what happened to those blood pressure booths/stations that used to be in the drug stores and walmart? You would sit down, stick your arm in the hole, push the red button, and it would clamp your arm and give your BP. I remember as a kid I would play around with those things every time my mom took us shopping. I didn't notice when they disappeared, but I don't recall seeing one in years.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
That's what I'm using. It's cheap, and agrees with my doctor. There's a tiny air compressor that sounds like a 30sec long fart as it inflates the cuff, and then spits out your blood pressure.

That reminds me; what happened to those blood pressure booths/stations that used to be in the drug stores and walmart? You would sit down, stick your arm in the hole, push the red button, and it would clamp your arm and give your BP. I remember as a kid I would play around with those things every time my mom took us shopping. I didn't notice when they disappeared, but I don't recall seeing one in years.
There are still some around, but they are going the way of the dodo, just like the tube testers that used to be in every hardware and drug store. The reason is precisely because of the cheap home cuffs that you can now find for under $10.
 

Miss Kelly

Joined Nov 9, 2013
6
I have a wrist cuff that I use for work. Trying to accurately wrap a manual cuff around my own arm requires more coordination than I possess. The wrist cuffs are actually fairly accurate.

I'm cobtinuing with my back exercises, and when the weather quits being so blasted windy I'll work up to riding my bike. I have some light dumbells and a rebounder too, so I just need to get in the habit of a bit every day. My BP was okay at my last rheumatoligist visit. I may invest in a glucometer just for my own peace of mind. I had an optometrist try to tell me I was diabetic. My bliod sugar was 90 an hoyr after a Taco Bell meal. Not exactly diabetic range. I tend to run more to hypoglycemia. Tracking my sugars though, would probably benefit my goals.

Miss Kelly
 
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