electromagnetic waves

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by CON_ENG, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    all of us nowing about the HVTL and the problem which cause
    the real problem with it is the electromagnetic waves which cause cancer
    my idea is you can make acircuit that provid a counter electromagnetic waves so that it can cancel it
    is somebody can help me about designing this circuit?
     
  2. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Counter EM waves may be able to cancel at some defined spot, but will otherwise add to the amount of EM energy being radiated. Even if it reduced some risk at the one place, it would increase it at all others.

    What does HVTL stand for? I don't recognize the acronym.
     
  3. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    HVTL mean high voltage transmission line and i am not agree with you . you say it will reduce some but raise the EM energy i now that it will not reduce it perfectly 100%
    but will reduce some by the way thanks if you do not mind i can disscus this with you in e_mail
     
  4. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Has this been conclusively established for EM waves from HVTLs? What frequencies and power densities are we talking about here?

    Dave
     
  5. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    I seem to recall some concern about close proximity to power lines causing cancers 20 -25 years ago. Studies were limited and at best inconclusive.

    Do you have more up-to-date data you can share?

    Are you looking for the household equivalent of the noise canceling headphone? A line to radiate in opposition to received EM frequencies and so delete them from the interior of the house? How about Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, cell phones, broadcast media, wireless doorbells, and portable phones? How do you distinguish between power line EM and the stuff that radiates off fluorescent lamps?
     
  6. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    the voltages are 220kv and 500kv and freguencies are 60&50HZ
    and i had a these held in apractical part the cancer occure after 9.375 year under field of 37.5kv also we make a test cell using rats and abad biological effectes happen if you want to see the athese i will send you
     
  7. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Do you have published work supporting this? This is very low frequency stuff to be of scope to cause biological damage.

    Dave
     
  8. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    People living under high voltage transmission lines got cancer.
    But the media didn't talk about the people living in the middle of a desert very far from high voltage transmission lines also got cancer.
     
  9. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    That's why I said the studies were inconclusive back in the 80's.
     
  10. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    CON_ENG, I got your PM.

    In the interests of keeping this discussion/project in the open forum, could you give me the title of the thesis, I will try and find a version in the public domain that everyone can view. Thanks.

    Dave
     
  11. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    ok i just think that you are the only one who want to now adout this a thesis
    by the way its name is "Biological effects of electromagnetic field on human body 'case study'"
    presented by:
    eng.Waleed abdel aziz
    note that there are a possibility not to find this athesis on the internet because this held on Egypt and a few no. of people who interest about publish it in the internet
    if you can't find it i will make a new topic and attache it to the topic
     
  12. recca02

    Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    I concur with Mr. beenthere. The Idea of countering an EMF with another will only reduce it to zero at a certain point. The idea doesn't seem workable. Got anything that suggests otherwise?
     
  13. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    thanks for all
     
  14. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    Can you provide a brief summary of the findings?
    How large were the control and subject groups?
    What were the exclusion criteria?
    How were subjects identified, enrolled, and recruited?
    By what characteristics (e.g., age, sex, ethnic group, family history, socioeconomic level, occupations, smoking, alcohol, etc.) were the subjects matched?
    What types of cancers were considered?
    What was the duration of the study (i.e., length of exposure and follow-up)?
    What were the relative-risk ratios (edit: also known as odds ratios) and 95% confidence intervals?
    How was the study funded?

    A brief summary of those facts would save a lot of reading and the inconvenience of posting the entire thesis.

    Thanks. John
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  15. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    i tried more to attach the a thesis but there are some problems i don't know i informed the administrator
     
  16. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
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    now,
    you can download the a thesis of"Biological effects of electromagnetic fields on human body'case study'"
    presented by eng.Walid Abdel Aziz
    i am waiting your opinions
    I'd like to say to him congratulation about your strong a thesis
    We waiting your PHD
     
  17. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
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    Thank you for providing the link. It is indeed a lengthy thesis for a Masters Degree, not PhD.

    I only reviewed it briefly, because of its length and apparent deficiencies.

    1) It does not involve humans at all. It involves, as best I can tell, 6 rats. Three were in the EMF exposed group and 3 were unexposed.
    2) The author collected data from several common clinical tests on the blood of the animals, including the enzyme SGOT (currently called AST). Interestingly, the cellular measures (i.e., CBC) did not change. Of all the studies done, only the SGOT apparently showed a difference between the groups, but importantly, did not increase with time of exposure in the exposed group.
    3) There was no baseline or zero-exposure measure made for each group. The first measurement was after 2 weeks of exposure and those values for each group did not seem to increase or decrease over length of exposure. It is entirely likely that the "control group" and test group started out with slightly different SGOT(AST) levels. Such differences are certainly observed between groups of normal humans. There was no follow-up to see whether the SGOT values returned to "normal" or autopsy after exposure.
    4) Aside from presenting the means and "standard deviations", there was no statistical analysis of whether the observed differences were statistically significant. I could do that calculation, but the effort is probably not worth it with such small sample sizes and other variables.
    5) Sampling was not blinded. Thus, the experimenter knew he was sampling the exposed rats and so forth.
    6) The pictures indicate that some trauma was involved in collecting the samples. It is well know that slight hemolysis, such as caused by squeezing the bleeding site or collecting/ejecting the blood though a fine needle, will elevate SGOT(AST) levels. Nowhere did the author try to measure the amount of hemolysis (e.g.,serum, not total hemoglobin) in the samples. Hemolysis sufficient to cause elevated AST levels is usually not evident in the CBC. Only a small amount of hemolysis is needed.

    I could go on and critique the manuscript more, but that would serve no constructive purpose. The same or similar comments would apply also to measurement of the total serum protein or any other of the variables studied.

    Even if there were an effect on AST or the other variables by EMF, the author's assumption that that would indicate leukemia (a type of blood cancer) is totally unfounded. Let me quote from the abstract:

    In that quote, the author seems to be confusing cause and effect. Those tissues release AST, but are not damaged by it. The author continues to equate damage to red blood cells as a type of leukemia.

    That is simply not correct.

    In conclusion, the so-called proof of an effect from EMF is not that at all in rats, much less in humans. It certainly is no proof that exposure to EMF can cause cancer.

    Thus, getting back to the original question, you seem to be asking help to do something that can't be done to prevent a problem that doesn't exist.

    John
     
  18. theamber

    Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
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    First of all I am totally against animal experimentation (killing and suffering of the laboratory animals).It should be prohibited. That only does more harm than good by creating medicines to make the human race weaker and weaker. People are so concerned with death and disease that can not even live. Death is a natural process if someone dies so what. Off coarse we worry about protecting our love ones but death is a natural thing we need to accept it and live with that. Besides death is not the end but the beginning of something unknown.
    Now how close are you from the source has a lot to do with it. In the typical household they are many sources of EMR.
    Anyways there are other more dangerous sources of EMR than the ones from power lines the longest the waves the less their penetrating effect.
    There is a way of calculating how much mass is necessary to block certain type of waves.
    Theoretically you can overpower and return waves with other waves of the same lenght and frequecy. You still will have standing waves of lesser magnitug comming back to you. You will need a very sophisticated way of creating a field arround your house. And you will need to apply more power than the electrical company. Could be a better way I cannot think of any other method... maybe Magneto from the Xmem could stop them.
    You are concerned with cancer but that has a lot to do with the person's own body cells too. You can find people more resistant than others.
    There are a lot of so called studies on cancer and EMR. But I think the ones you should worry about are the microwaves, nanowaves and picowaves and so on one is the gamma rays which have the shortest wavelengh.
    You can check this page has more info on their claimed effects:
    http://www.naturodoc.com/library/lifestyle/emf.htm

    Shielding Gamma rays here requires large amount of mass and the denser the material is the better.
    Actually there are claims that the diffuse background light in the universe can block them.
    Many people claim all sort of stuff here is this guy he even spended time filling out the forms to pattent his invention.
    http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6369399/description.html

    There are many other things out there to worry about like polution, germs in the air we breath, microorganism in the water, that is why our body has developed natural defenses to counteract them, you should not worry so much about them.
    You have to understand one thing many people out there make claims or use "so called studies" in order to use your fear to make you buy their products is a marketing scam. Fear can make people do crazy things.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  19. CON_ENG

    Thread Starter Member

    Jul 2, 2008
    26
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    first i am so happy for your disscution
    but for the member(jpanhalt) i said that this for getting the master degree and he take it and i said i wish to see from him good PHD
    but it is seem you didnot read it carfully the major purpose was effect on human body and the problem is exist do not say it dose not exist.
    this problem exist in country where people are living near
    and there were aproblem here in Egypt in school built near high voltage transsmission line
    and there were childern showed serouis changes in there nerves system as i remember but the media didn't concern even in every country the media does not concern
    this problem is serously exist
    and he was concern with transmission line(power line) because this is his study
    read it carfully take your time and disscuse it a gain you made agood disscusion
    and iam waiting to learn from you more
     
  20. theamber

    Active Member

    Jun 13, 2008
    318
    0
    Con_eng Peace be upon you. I understand your concern but the more feasible solution is increase the distance from the source or block it with dense mass.
    Gamma Radiation is another form of EMW and is a big concern now days for governments. Nuclear waste is a problem an isolation has been the answer so far. It may be a more ingenious one anything is possible.
    I think the radiation from power lines is problematic but not that alarming.
    I think I also saw somewhere that some liquids being used to cool down power transformers were causing cancer in people living near them.
     
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