Electromagnetic fields and an experiment

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Little Ghostman, Jan 17, 2016.

  1. Little Ghostman

    Thread Starter Member

    Jan 1, 2014
    294
    97
    I will do my best to explain what I ant but it may change as I gather more information.

    The following paper relates to a study on electromagnetic fields (mainly those less than the natural background)

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154392/

    I noticed a few things that sisnt sit very well with some other papers of equal weight, mainly the issue of C2+ (sorry cant find superscript). Some plants particularly certain Brophites and mosses in peat bogs have little Calcium and even less in the +2 state. Due to the highly acidic nature of there media Calcium isnt a major factor.

    Cutting several papers very very short, I got a hunch its more to do with the same pathway that C2+ is a part of. So I would like to experiment and look into this, I have access to my dads old Biology lab and all the equipment he had.

    My problem is I do little with AC voltages and so setting up the experiment is outside my knowledge.

    What I would like to do is use a high voltage field (low current) and study the effect on the merystem cells of the root tips. So how would I go about producing say 10KV at low current and high frequency, its mainly the frequency I want to alter. The paper suggest the resonant frequency to be 100KHz but I would like to go from 100Khz to around 250KHz.

    Obviously I could use a flyback for the voltage but how best to alter the sign-wave frequency?? I am not sure of the current but would probably start around 50mA. Any pointers gratefully received! I am more digital than AC so not sure how to alter AC frequency.

    The plants will be 3 types of bean and 4 types of Brophite
     
  2. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
    5,986
    3,730
    I have a sneaking suspicion that calcium present in the +2 oxidation state in your plants will exactly match the total calcium.
     
  3. AnalogKid

    Distinguished Member

    Aug 1, 2013
    4,516
    1,246
    50 mA at 10 kV = 500 watts. Basically, that is a low frequency RF power amplifier. There are OEM companies that build these things for industrial applications (as opposed to amateur radio), but I've not seen one below $10,000 nor have I seen one at your high voltage/low current combination.

    ak
     
  4. Little Ghostman

    Thread Starter Member

    Jan 1, 2014
    294
    97
    Wow, that could explain the lack of data for what I want!! It would help if I knew exactly what I wanted.

    So lets see if I actually need what I THINK I need.........

    I need a sine wave and a electromagnetic field, I need to vary the frequency and create a field that will affect the cells. Not much to go on is it! I even considered connecting an alternator to a motor and varying the motor speed to alter the frequency, Ok the voltage is alot lower but.................... Hang on, I do have figures! they are not in units I know so maybe I should go back and start there. Sorry if this is all over the place, I have this hunch but not much idea how to get there :D
     
  5. AnalogKid

    Distinguished Member

    Aug 1, 2013
    4,516
    1,246
    That is how the first voice radio transmitter worked. It was years before the vacuum tube and the idea of an electronic oscillator were invented. GE built an alternator that made 60 kHz AC, tuned by changing the motor speed. The old ideas just keep coming around...

    ak
     
  6. Little Ghostman

    Thread Starter Member

    Jan 1, 2014
    294
    97
    Its lack of knowledge in this field, I assume if I spin the alternator faster and get rid of the regulator I can alter the frequency. The paper I can get access to at school has some number in it, I will take it from there and come back with a better formed question.
     
  7. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
    4,004
    1,522
  8. Little Ghostman

    Thread Starter Member

    Jan 1, 2014
    294
    97
    Hi shortbus, no not exactly. Apparently several recent papers indicate a change in the root tip meristem cells with certain frequencies of electromagnetic fields, but other papers I have read dispute the mechanism. My interest is purely because I have done alot of stuff with a clinostat and I would like to compare the cell structure between the two.

    I have a hunch the recent paper is wrong regarding the mechanism, it seems to suggest that live mass is increased and yet dried mass dosnt change (the paper I linked too). Also it suggest the mechanism is down to C2+ ions, but looking at the metabolic pathways that dosnt make sense. The other claim is decreased germination times, but it dosnt give enough information to show if this is purely down to say inductive warming of the seed.

    I have a thing about plants so if I can work out the best way to test this I would like to have a look at it, although its a slight waste of time at the moment as I should be doing other things :D
     
  9. alfacliff

    Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2013
    2,449
    428
    an alternator with that much output at 100 khz is not practical, the rpm would make it very hard to keep it from flying apart from centrifugal force. stick to fairly modern electronics, mosfets and such. for 100 khz at about 50 ma, a solid state tesla coil wouild be very practical, feed it with a veriable frequency oscilator.
     
  10. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
    1,981
    388
    Little Ghostman, I read a little of your link. Not sure I understand what you are trying to do.

    Earth's magnetic field effect on biology, would not be the same as your proposed setup.

    A simple small magnetic at fixed angle with variable distance is all that is necessary for earth's MF comparisons. There is no high voltage or frequency in earth's MF.

    However, it would be interesting to see effect of HVAC on root tip growth. Or lack of.

    Any high voltage or current around the root tip, takes it out of natural comparison and natural condition.

    But maybe that's ok, being I have no idea what you are doing.
     
    ronv likes this.
  11. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
    12,090
    3,027
    I don't really hear an hypothesis in there, except maybe the null hypothesis that there will be no effect. If you want to do a meaningful experiment on the effect of an electrical field on tissue, you'll need to be able to measure the field, not just produce one, and to have a very low field for the control. This will be tricky because your control needs to see identical conditions to the test tissue, or else you may just see artifacts.
     
  12. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
    1,981
    388
    Comparing growth rates, with currents, in hydroponic solutions might be interesting.

    Small currents might not only effect rate, but maybe direction too.
     
Loading...