economics

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by recca02, May 23, 2007.

  1. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    thermodynamics looks so simple when compared to something like economics.

    i m really pissed off by the jargons and lexicons of the subject.
    i wud normally respect every subject and field. but these people really go
    against the idea that a concept shud always be taught in a language that is easily understandable to masses and not classes. it seems to me all they want to bring to light is not the dynamics of market and money but how much of a difficult superior atypical and ____(insert whatever superior meaning word u can here) are they dealing with. i've got a paper in a couple of days on economics
    and i m soooo lost in my attempts to decode what they are trying to convey.
    i wud quote some examples later 'coz i really wud hate to write anything concerning economics and due to shortage of time.
    at this time i m not even looking for a help(or a economics forum if that exists)
    but for someone to share my views ,sympathize and loath such way of teaching.


    really engineering field is a heaven for us technical minded people.something like social ciences,applied humanities ,economics they confuse u to point of
    insanity.
    i know some members here are from some of these field but my sorrow is not that these subjects are unworthy but the way they are taught.
    hope someone here agrees with me
    also feel free to post if u feel i m wrong.
     
  2. Papabravo

    Expert

    Feb 24, 2006
    10,137
    1,786
    I think you might be having difficulty managing your expectations. Understanding, analysis, and forecasting are elements of the hard sciences we have come to understand and expect. What you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance. You expect economics to be like the other subjects that you are familiar with. When you find that although there are superficial similarities it is a new ballgame with intractable rules, concepts, and pardigms you rebel.

    Here it is in a nutshell. There are very few people who understand it better than you, and me, and the rest of the folks here. Even they cannot predict the future, but they have a great many other people convinced that they can. Much of the knowledge is anecdotal and very little is generalizable. So study it if you wish, but take it all with a grain of salt.

    BTW, every functioning adult on the planet is a bonafide expert in micro-economics.
     
  3. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    thanx MR .P.B maybe i needed to face the reality.
    guess, i dont have much of a choice in that matter,
    i wont have even bothered if our curriculum forced to learn subjects like
    economics, applied humanities and environmental management.
    i agree with your statement of unpredictability of their assessment every economic theory has a limitation that states that the effects can sometimes be the exact opposite .

    of course i agree its a different ballgame altogether but cud they have not made it a little easier to understand?
    guess what i also studied a bit about micro-economics

    edit: sigh !
    if only there were laws like this instead of laws of demand, diminishing utility,etc:
    money and gold can neither be created nor destroyed , the total sum of money and gold in the universe remains constant.
    it can be converted from one form to other.
    billions=bullions*c^2 +$
     
  4. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    144
    Could not have put it better myself.

    Having only recently done a Managerial Economic course at work, I can't help but think the subject is a load of cobblers - but that is because I have done constantly in education and work environments Maths, Science and Engineering since before I could shave! The concepts of demand and supply, elasticity and how this translates to real world situations seems pretty obvious - put me in a situation where I have to make a decision based on economic knowledge and I'm lost.

    The only think I can honestly say I got out of the course was a better understanding of how Interest Rates in the UK are used to control all aspects of the economy through Inflation. Its a very clever concept even if I constantly get a raw deal of the government as a result!

    Agreed! I can't help but feeling like this when I sit there in a management lecture (and some people do this a full time course/career). If you ever get the chance, sit in on a board meeting with a load of company directors with MBAs - it is some experience!

    Dave
     
  5. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    so i think i m the only one with this conception/perception of the futility of the terminologies and weird concepts used in economics maybe my judgment was clouded by my frustration but my belief still remains the same.
    i studied overnight and did understand some of the concepts of taxation, banking,inflation,stagflation,deflation,(confusion??) and was really amused by
    the paradox each concept brings out.
    it seems every good thing is accompanied by a worse situation, every fall
    is speculated as increase. two opposite concepts have same outcome and influence on the economic condition of country.
    i will list some of the paradoxes later along with confusing selection of words used in such subjects along with their implications to prove my point later.
    it also seems that an economic policy adopted can have virtually any possible
    effect and ill effect, i mean savings mean investments here, fall in prices due to increase in o/p means less o/p in the future which means increase in price .. go figure.
     
  6. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    As a side point, you should dispair when they try to make the concepts more difficult than they need to be. I recall doing a management course on Production Systems and they tried to illustrate some of the concepts using calculus - it was embarrassing!

    Dave
     
  7. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    i m begining to like the subject :)
    but that wasn't my point, i was complaining abt how the knowledge of thes subjects is shown as a point of high esteem by the use of complex jargons when normal words wud have sufficed.
    i also came across the use of calculus in economics when they were trying to explain economics of scale there wasnt much to it, it just seemed like another
    dirty trick played by the economists since in case of market an o/p or cost is never a perfect function of any of the numerous factors which themselves are not a function .for example do human taste (not cannibalism :D) in fashion or
    what we call it as trend have any perfect logic or a mathematical pattern?
    now instead of using calculus they cud have gone for ratio of small changes in
    parameters , i mean if u have knowledge why not share it with others what point wud one want to prove by intentionally making it a hard to deal with concept?
    some concepts of economics are really fantastic and i wud actually recommend everybody to atleast have a basic idea of these concepts.
    since we have to deal with economy at some level generally we do have/require them.

    edit: considering what happened to battery electric vehicles (ne1 from gm or ford here?) which i think was a due to dirty tricks of management do u ppl still want to defend these ppl (think of the better environment and technical superiority potential it had --nipped in the bud i wud say)
     
  8. n9352527

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 14, 2005
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    Well... I like economic, especially macro economic, it's my next favourite subject after electronic.

    It does have some strange concepts, especially if the reader has a background in engineering. However, as someone said once, there is a method in the madness :D

    Economic is not neat and certainly does not always strictly follow established pattern of behaviour, but that's part of the charm I guess.
     
  9. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    Don't confuse economics and marketing.
     
  10. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    yeah,
    some parts of it do make sense,after all its a really old concept if u think about it.
    i believe marketing is just a small branch which evolves out of economics, m i incorrect?
     
  11. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    You might say that marketing is the part that tries to make the predictions come true. Go to any large store and observe the number of competing products in just the soap asile. As there is no practical way to demonstrate which is the "best" purchase, it's up to marketing - advertising, if you like - to convince you that this product is better than that.
     
  12. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    I suppose you can actually empathise with the effects of macro-economics. Like recca02 though, I can't handle the jargon and needless "buzz-words".

    Dave
     
  13. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    And don't get me started on marketing!! :D

    They try and sell things the engineers are yet to design, or are even sure they actually can design!

    Dave
     
  14. mozikluv

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 22, 2004
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    in engineering the priority is to design a marketable devise to do a function in the most efficient way.

    in business the bottom line is always the profit.

    this is the biggest :p conflict area between an engineer and a marketing man.

    moz
     
  15. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    well,
    thanks to all of u people i got a a little interested in economics.
    i last couple of days i've stuffed more economics in my head than i've had in rest
    of my life or perhaps ever will.
    my hardwork paid off ^_^ v
    will be adding new paradox and confusing statement to add fuel to debate.
     
  16. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    Indeed so. The irony is that often one cannot exist without another. I guess we are destined to exist in conflict! :D

    Dave
     
  17. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
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    There is a way out. Remember the old saying - In order to be able to ship the product, first you have to shoot the engineer.
     
  18. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    i read a lot about marketing concept that has evolved in near abt 1950.
    you won't believe how they define it.

    "in marketing concept management aims at consumers satisfaction .
    marketing converts customers needs to products.
    the process is seen as customer satisfying process.
    customer determines price. which customer determined the cost of ferrari's:mad: ?

    good thing i m still an undergraduate.
    so starting tomorrow there wont be any moderators and admins left alive?
     
  19. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
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    I have no issue with satisfying customer requirements or aspirations - it is a core aspect of any business. Sadly in my experience, marketing buffs seem to dictate the odds to those who ultimately are responsible for the implementation of these requirements and aspirations. Marketing is as much about kidding people as it is about customer satisfaction, and often the joke is on the engineer.

    Be aware when I'm talking about ecomonics, marketing and management in general, I am referring to it purely in context of the engineering industry. I cannot comment about other industries.

    Don't worry, we shoot back ;) :D

    Dave
     
  20. recca02

    Thread Starter Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
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    i wrote those lines to ridicule the vanity in the attempt these ppl make in
    trying to fool us.
    engineers are the most intelligent and rational of all human beings.:cool:
    cheers!

    while we try understanding concepts nanotech ppl in market are busy finding
    pyramids(marketing) for disposal of their coffins after being shot back:D
     
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