domestic wiring queries - NSW (Aust)

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by gpigeon, Jan 11, 2016.

  1. gpigeon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 24, 2012
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    Yesterday I had reason to take the cover off the back of a kitchen stove in a rental property. I did not touch the wiring as I know this has to be done by a licenced sparky.
    I am wondering if we have a resident sparky who could answer a couple of questions for me. I have a sparky coming to look at the problem stove this "arvo" but unfortunately I will not be able to meet him.
    My queries are:
    1. Conductor colours????? There are 2 actives coming in (Blue & Red) and the Neutral is white. My 1976 version of AS3000 is very confusing re conductor colours and does not even mention a white neutral!!!! This installation I would say would be pre 1970.

    2. I can understand why they split the load between 2 actives but they still only have ONE neutral. That means that that neutral sees the full load anyway. Say max 15A per active then the neutral will see 30A. True or not?

    Any comments?

    Thanks.
    Bill.
     
  2. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    You forgot about the phase difference between the two 'live' conductors.;)
    Max.
     
  3. BR-549

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 22, 2013
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    What country are you in?

    The neutral is probably for 120 v, for lights, timers, clocks, 120 stove top outlet, etc.

    The elements, will be 220.
     
  4. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    @BR-549

    He is from New South Wales, Australia - see title.
     
    BR-549 likes this.
  5. gpigeon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 24, 2012
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    Gents....(and others) Thanks for your replies. Yes, NSW, Australia, so no 120v only 240V!!!

    Max, I think you have the answer. I wasn't sure if there were 2 phases or 2 actives on the same phase. However if there are 2 phases the neutral would only see one "lot" of 15A at any one time.

    btw....I posed these same queries on our local forum, "Whirlpool", which I thought being an Aussie forum would be pretty relaxed but they deleted it, stating that electrical work can only be carried out by licenced electricians....a bit petty I thought! As it turned out I did get to speak to the licenced electrician that came to do the job and surprise, surprise....he didn't know the answer either! "He would have to consult his text books" he said.

    Thanks again.
    Bill.
     
  6. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    What?! Who are they letting have a license nowadays?
    Either you don't have a phase difference in NSW or you need a different electrician!
    (I think it's the second one.)

    Anyway, there is no law against knowing how, only botching the job by not knowing the rules and your personal limitations. It's mostly about safety, and amateurs will be well advised to hire somebody that knows why there are three wires.;)
     
  7. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    Hey Bill,

    You used the word, "Sparky" several times in your original post. Is that a common way to refer to an electrician in Australia? If so, do other tradesmen (plumbers, roofers, bricklayers, ...) have nicknames, too?

    Cheers.
     
  8. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    A sheet metal worker is a, "tin bender".
     
  9. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    Thanks. Now that you say that, I've heard tin bender and tin basher in the past out of Australia - actually for HVAC guys.
     
  10. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    So how were you getting two live conductors and a neutral? I always though that Australia was 1ph 220-240 and star neutral. Same as UK?
    It is sometimes Sparks in UK also.
    Also Tinsmith known as a Tin Basher here in Canada.
    Max.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
  11. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    Air Conditioning is so much more than tin bending! My first boss in the trade thought he was a tin bender, therefore he could fix air conditioners. The first rule we learned about that boss was: "If Kermit wired it, rip it all out and start over. It's quicker than trying to trace out all of his mistakes."
     
  12. debe

    Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2010
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    Here in Australia it is common to have 2 x 240 volt phases with a neutral to an electric stove. This splits the load up, also the 3 phases are colour coded Red Blue & Yellow the neutral being White. Ground/ Earth is Green with Yellow stripe. Well it was when I was a Linesman.
     
  13. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    I don't quite understand, the standards for Australia on the web show 230v 1ph (L & N), if you had two phases and a neutral from the same line, they would be 415v between phases?
    Max.
     
  14. profbuxton

    Member

    Feb 21, 2014
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    Yep 415v between phases, 240 phase to neutral.
     
  15. gpigeon

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jul 24, 2012
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    "GopherT".......The word "Sparky" has been used at least for the last 35 yrs in the mining industry in Australia but is now becoming common in mainstream lingo.

    Debe...I think you are right. The house in question has 3 phases running right by it so I reckon they run 2 into the house to share the high load to the stove. That phase difference would mean the one neutral conductor only carries 15A max.

    Conductor colours in Aust.......are really confusing!!!! Since we adopted the ISO (I think about 20+ yrs ago) standards the colours of extension lead conductors are Brown active, blue neutral and green/yellow earth. (Prior to that it was Red, black, green) So, it could be possible to have a blue active, fixed wiring, up to the back of the wall plate and plugged into that socket, a blue neutral in the xtn. lead.

    It is indeed curious that we can have this conversation on this forum but it would be banned on an Aussie one. And then, I note that tech queries re cattle prods are banned on this forum but quite ok on Aussie ones.
    Strange world we live in!
    Thanks again for your input.
    Bill.
     
  16. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    In N.A. most residencies have a single phase 240v 200 amp supply for the service, I would not have expected a need for anything greater in Australia justifing 2 240v phases?
    Max.
     
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