Digital TV Tuner

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
This is the board from a digital to analog TV receiver that is not working. See the empty pad, middle bottom? I pulled a bloated electrolytic off of there. I stupidly forgot to mark the polarity before I removed it.

With the board powered up, there is a small voltage on the thru-holes and the polarity is in alignment with the shaded area being ground. Maybe 1.5V. The cap is rated 16V.

I thought the shaded area indicates ground, but I swear the the capacitor was mounted backwards, if that was true. I'm about 90% sure of that. Is it possible it was installed backwards and lasted a year or so anyway?
FullSizeRender.jpg
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
It's up and working again!

I notice that even the replacement capacitor is getting warm. I may need to get a low ESR, high temp rated replacement.
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
For the record, this device is a HomeWorX model HW180STB set top box.

The offending capacitor was marked:
DKS® (which I cannot find)
RoHS
1000µF, 16V
-40°C – 105°C
I replaced it with a Lelon cap from my junk drawer that had the same 1000µF and 16V rating, and even the 105°C max.
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
Today I'm looking at another of these units that has failed. It's a little different - a red light appears on the front panel and the unit attempts to boot, but then the light goes off and it starts over. And over and over.

I took it apart hoping the same capacitor might be the problem despite the different behavior. There is no bulging or spewing this time. The DC voltages on the caps and big diode are 5v (along the back edge of the board in this photo). I switched to AC mode and was surprised to find 10V on these components. That seems like a problem?

IMG_2969.png
 

debe

Joined Sep 21, 2010
1,390
I would also suspect the diode, replace it with a Shotkey diode as they handle the switch mode frequency better, & see what happens.
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
I would also suspect the diode, replace it with a Shotkey diode as they handle the switch mode frequency better, & see what happens.
Well, I have some replacements I could try but I'm skeptical it would make much difference.
 

DickCappels

Joined Aug 21, 2008
10,187
Or could it be some peripheral device that when "spoken to" causes the power supply to dip from an excessive load, causing a reset, or something similar?
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
The endless rebooting happens as soon as the device is plugged in, with nothing attached. There is no response to the buttons. Maybe I'll try disconnecting the header for those at the PCB. I'll have to attach a monitor to see if anything happens because the little red power-on LED is on the same PCB with the user buttons.
 

SLK001

Joined Nov 29, 2011
1,549
I took it apart hoping the same capacitor might be the problem despite the different behavior. There is no bulging or spewing this time. The DC voltages on the caps and big diode are 5v (along the back edge of the board in this photo). I switched to AC mode and was surprised to find 10V on these components. That seems like a problem?
A capacitor doesn't always bulge when it fails. What does "switched to AC mode" mean?
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
A capacitor doesn't always bulge when it fails. What does "switched to AC mode" mean?
I meant the metering mode of my cheap Can-Tech meter was switched from DC to AC. I agree about the capacitor, but I have no reason to think there's anything wrong with it except the fact that capacitors get old. I suppose if I have a replacement I could just try it.
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
Or could it be some peripheral device that when "spoken to" causes the power supply to dip from an excessive load, causing a reset, or something similar?
There are no peripherals but this got me thinking. I hooked it up to my big TV by HDMI and powered it up. The hi-res splash screen comes up immediately but about when you'd expect a menu or a station to come on screen, it goes black and reboots. A couple seconds later it's back to the splash screen. Repeat.

So I tend to think the power supply is not the problem.

I looked over the board again and the only thing I see that's odd is a slight darkening on the backside, behind an IC with a heat sink. The heat sink is applied sloppily and is a little off center. Looking closely underneath the heat sink, behind the HDMI port in the foreground, you can see some thermal adhesive has glopped out and may be touching the pins. That's bad, right?

How do you fix that?

[edit] It looks like thermal adhesive, other than stuff with silver in it, is supposed to be
electrically insulating. Hmmm...

IMG_2975.png
 
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Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
I thought I'd give this one more go this morning.

Two experiments:
1) Disconnected the PCB jumper that goes to the user buttons, IR receiver and power-state LED. No effect.
2) Bypassed the AC power supply and put 5V DC directly onto the capacitor that is missing in the 1st photo. Same symptoms, splash screen followed by reboot.​

I noticed that the plastic case directly above the aluminum heat sink in the photo above has vent slits that have melted together and closed. This may have caused the passive cooling to degrade and the IC to get still hotter.

I don't see any path forward. Do you?
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
I cut/tore off that heat sink this morning and scraped the overflow off the pins of the IC underneath. No change.
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
Well here I am a year later and I just fixed another of these units. A bad cap.

Can you see it?

Symptom: Device was stone cold dead. Wouldn't power up. Replaced one cap with one from my junk drawer and full function is restored!

IMG_4223.jpg
IMG_4224.jpg
IMG_4226.jpg
 
For the record, this device is a HomeWorX model HW180STB set top box.

The offending capacitor was marked:
DKS® (which I cannot find)
RoHS
1000µF, 16V
-40°C – 105°C
I replaced it with a Lelon cap from my junk drawer that had the same 1000µF and 16V rating, and even the 105°C max.
Well here I am a year later and I just fixed another of these units. A bad cap.

Can you see it?

Symptom: Device was stone cold dead. Wouldn't power up. Replaced one cap with one from my junk drawer and full function is restored!

View attachment 138432
View attachment 138431
View attachment 138430
Hi, I found your thread by searching for DKS capacitors and coincidentally, I also have a dead tuner/DVR box from Homeworx (although I have the HW-150PVR) and the exact same capacitor is bulging in mine. I've actually had multiple HW-150PVRs that will turn off by themselves or freeze, and I have yet to open them up, but I wanted to ask you if you've experienced problems with any other capacitors on the board. I'm pretty much a novice with these kinds of electrical issues so unfortunately my diagnosis skills don't go further than seeing if a cap is bulging/leaking. I guess what I want to know is if I should bother replacing all of the other caps on the board or if this is the only one that seems to be causing problems. Thanks for any insight you can provide.
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
@AZImmortal , I ’m pretty much in the same boat. If it’s not an obvious failure, then it’s just a shotgun approach to replace them all and hope for the best. I’d start with the larger ones, though. I think both the ones I replaced were among the larger ones on the board.

There is a way to test caps, called an ESR meter. I even built one. But frankly it’s easier to just replace them.
 
@AZImmortal , I ’m pretty much in the same boat. If it’s not an obvious failure, then it’s just a shotgun approach to replace them all and hope for the best. I’d start with the larger ones, though. I think both the ones I replaced were among the larger ones on the board.

There is a way to test caps, called an ESR meter. I even built one. But frankly it’s easier to just replace them.
Thanks. Yeah, I believe that these caps are the second largest on the board. Your board's layout is actually almost exactly the same as my board's, and I was thinking about also replacing the cap that's two components to the right because it's also a DKS (It's hard for me to find the manufacturer for most of the rest of the caps). You haven't experienced any other cap failures on your Homeworx boxes beyond that particular one, though?
 

Thread Starter

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,498
You haven't experienced any other cap failures on your Homeworx boxes beyond that particular one, though?
This thread has all my notes in it, so no. I can't recall the details but from what I wrote above, it looks like one of the 3 units I worked on was never repaired. I didn't bother to replace the other caps because I believe my wife was able to get the unit replaced using her credit card's extended warranty feature. I believe we've gone through two or three of these in addition to the two I've repaired. On the upside, they don't even require you to send them back anymore. So if I succeed in a repair, it's gravy.
 
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